Jymm Hoffman

What a great interview....!

Rich, it's not like fire gilding as most of the copper doesn't go away, just the surface layer is depleted. The copper/platinum doesn't make an eutectic alloy. It is just a mechanical mixture of platinum "flakes" in molten copper---stir it up good before you poor!

Yes it's a weird outlier---which is why I remembered the details on it.

Weather report calls for the next 5 days to be clear, sunny and temps in the 60's and 70's.

Since I had to give up the dream of having a concrete floor in my shop extension things have been progressing. I've boarded in the first half with PT wood, (termites not rot is the problem out here) and got the boards level and at the correct height and so now am moving dirt to make the whole thing level and even.

I'm collecting a fine silty sand from the arroyo and also the clay plates from mud cracks and hope to wet it and tamp it down into a decent floor.

Moving dirt is a whole lot like work though!

Thomas

Side comment

Thomas,

Whatever happened the the idea of making shops out of old refrigerators? GOOD insulation and incredible shelf space. LOL (No rot, termites, mice, etc.)

Down here old refrigerators disappear to Old Mexico and are not seen again.

I am looking into getting adobe from a local church that collapsed. Stacked up against the west wall it would make the shop cooler in the summer.

All my metal paneling was free,(hail damage), the uprights were free as well---utility poles given away by the local electrical co-op. All I had to buy were the used trusses, purlins and screws. I also splurged on a couple of used roll up doors, (Thanks Jeff!), and am looking for a header to mount them on.

Thomas

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surface treatments of metals

This discussion reminded me of a much more common, but related process. Passivation of Stainless steels. 300 series stainless held at the wrong temperature will rust. There are two things to do to prevent it. (1)Heat to 1500 and quench to re=dissolve iron grains, and (2) Passivate. Passivation involves acid treatment of the part, which leaves an iron depleted and therefore nickel-chromium rich surface that better resists rust. 20% nitric acid has been the traditional agent, but cold dilute sulfuric and even citric are sometimes used.

wierd metal treatment

I made a few pair of sterling earings years ago, then discovered that I had no liver of sulphur to blacken them. Not exactly high end stuff, so I figured it was time to experiment. Tried bleach.....NOT a good idea. It looked like the bleach ate away the silver in the sterling and left the copper on the surface. Buffing away the copper on the high spots left the stampings red. They polished up nicely and I found enough people who liked them to get them all sold, but I'd never suggest repeating the process to anyone....Joe

Gallery inquiry

does anyone recall who posted the horseshoe nail ring maker? and where? I have shows coming up where it might be a hit. One would think I'd just relax and enjoy being old, but I can't seem to stop making stuff.....Joe....

HS Nail Rings

Joe it was posted by Old Trail a little more than a year ago. The photos of his tooling are in his album. I made tooling pretty much like his using a bottom swage with a chain link welded on it and a iron worker bull prick with a length of 1 in round bar stock welded to it for leverage Works great and was a big hit both last and this year at the NM state Fair. I use mostly size 6,7 and 8 nails and some size 10's for larger men's rings. Had to order them in (Pieh Tool) since the feed stores around here don't stock bigger then size 5. Never did say thanks to him for the post and photos, so many thanks to you "Old Trail". LXIV,

1 more thing

Joe my bottom swage is 3/4 in. LXIV,

Shop Construction

I never have seen a shop made of old refrigerators, but I have a friend whose father had a welding shop where the whole building was made of old car batteries, during the 1940's in Phoenix, Az. Think of sparks and exploding walls!!!

Shop Construction

I never have seen a shop made of old refrigerators, but I have a friend whose father had a welding shop where the whole building was made of old car batteries, during the 1940's in Phoenix, Az. Think of sparks and exploding walls!!!

Horseshoe nail rings

At Sutter's Mill we make a LOT of horseshoe nail rings for the tourists, children etc. We may sell several thousand a year.

We use a pretty standard ring jig - a tapering ring rod, through a hole in a plate to hold the end, and over a right angle trough. Nail goes over the trough, rod is pressed down to make the first half of the arc, and the two ends are finished up w a light hammer.

We use 7, 8, 9, 10s. I assume 11.s aren't made cause I've never seen one. We've experimented and found a 12 is a pretty big ring. We do buy some 16s, but we use those for salt spoons, wall hooks, etc.

What is interesting, is we make so many we have developed a technique. It takes practice, but if you push you can make over 300 rings in an hour plus (boring and you are in pain when you finish, but FAST).

We've been tweaking our technique, and just finished putting a piece of that split pipe insulation on the ring bar to keep your elbow from getting sore after a few hundred times leaning on the thing to make the first bend. Helps a lot.

We also developed a trick of tossing each ring as it is finished into a can buried in vermiculite and containing a 5 pound chunk of hot steel. As each ring goes in it is exposed to a slightly lower temperature as the steel cools. The rings come out all different colors. However, the store didn't think the colored rings sold any better than the plain silver, so we don't do that anymore.

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Hi, here you can find tons of beuty videos and photos. Enjoy us and be happy!

thanks, guys!

Sounds like a winner. Do you dub off the sharp end of the nail or just tuck it under?

By the way, I was looking at nails and found these that are from ( of all things) the swiss army, they claim, with a tiny cross on the head of each.

doubleyou doubleyou dot sciplus.com/singleItem.cfm/terms/8711/cartLogFrom/froogle

Might be interesting...Joe

Blacksmithing

Last night on TCM was a 2 hour program on the films of Thomas Edison. The first one was a 50 foot reel of a blacksmith with 2 strikers using an anvil that looked amazingly like a 300# trenton that I had for years and sold to Ron Kinyon when I went out of business. The blacksmith set up the rhythm with his own hammer and then joined in. .they each took a drink from a bottle while waiting for the second heat, then resumed. Very good clip.

Blacksmithing

Last night on TCM was a 2 hour program on the films of Thomas Edison. The first one was a 50 foot reel of a blacksmith with 2 strikers using an anvil that looked amazingly like a 300# trenton that I had for years and sold to Ron Kinyon when I went out of business. The blacksmith set up the rhythm with his own hammer and then joined in. .they each took a drink from a bottle while waiting for the second heat, then resumed. Very good clip.

recip saw

I use a jig saw for cutting plate from time to time.Home depot sells a freund brand blade that makes a regular circular saw cut 1/4 inch plate like plywood pricy at 40 bucks,but have had them last enough to price out at 1 dollar a foot cut, well worth it when I plan the cost of the blades into the job.When they get dull they quit cutting all at once.

Mike Tanner

Mike contact me, please. This Saturday's trip cannot happen cuz my truck engine is going bad. But your birthday present is ready for pickup if you want to drive up. I sent an e-mail to your school.

Nail Rings

Joe, I leave the nail point as is and let it tuck in under the nail head. I tell customers to spin the ring in the direction of the head when putting it on and off the finger. This will keep you from getting stuck by the point should be it positioned wrong. They will rust so I tell the buyer to coat it with clear nail polish. Also note that Delta nails are softer than the other brands and tend to be easier to form. LXIV,

John Larson

Sorry to hear that you wont make it saturday ( its looking like its going to be a good one )
Please dont call it a birthday present
Its a piece of shop equip, that just happens to be ready on my birthday.
Anything else may give my wife the impression that im a cheapskate when it comes to her birthday presents :)
I wont be able to make the trip to pick it up before saturday but will call you before I come.
I really appreciate you going thru the extra effort to have it ready for the hammer-in , sorry to hear about your truck
Your presence will be missed

Mike

Good info

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Hammer In this weekend

Looks like about 100 or so people will be at the event this weekend. A lot of tailgating too...

All are welcome to come and see Peter Ross demo and enjoy some brunswick stew.
blacksmithguildodfva.com for anyone wanting more info.

Peyton

Hi all. Thanks for the nail ring info.

my question is for the welders here. What is the best rod for doing a down-hand with stick? I was just told recently that downhand was possible with stick, with the right rod and right technique. Anyone tried this? Thanks.

Jeff H

I assume You mean down hill, and mild steel.

I would use 6011, I think it is a little easier than 6013 out of position.

I grew up with 2 choices in mild steel rod, 6011 & 6013. If You have a DC machine, You might choose between 6010 & 6012, 6010 being similar to 6011, and 6012 being similar to 6013.

Unless You store them in an oven,[not practicle fore an ocasional welder like Me] Lo Hi rods [7018, etc.] will not give a low hydrogen weld deposit anyway, so why fool Yourself ?

In mild steel, with a DC machine I like E-7018. All position, makes a very good quality weld if the metal is or has been cleaned to bright. Not so good on rust and paint and so forth.

We used tons and tons in the valve and boiler shop, for full penetration pressure vessel welds that had to be tested. Yeilded very good results. I use them at home now. I do keep them in a rod heater unless in a good sealed container.

Thanks guys, I"ve got a Ranger 8 I"m going to be doing the welding with. The job is 4, 4X4 posts that have been split by water getting in then freezing. I
will clean the area to be welded down to bare metal.

Dave, never heard it called up/down hill before. We use the same terms fro mig welding too. And Yes, mild steel.

Downhill

Jeff H, There was an article in Practical Welding Today I believe or else in the Fabricator(free trade mags) a few issues ago which described a rod specifically designed for downhill passes in pipeline welds. I may have it at home as I was pretty surprised by it and saved it. It was apparently designed to allow much faster deposition amd save time in construction. If I'm not mistaken I think the rod was a Lincoln product so you might do a search at their site. I'm betting it's expensive though so for your relatively small job why not just weld up like usual? Steve G

Steve,I"ll check their site. The 4x4s are holding up a 1/2 ton air conditioner at my church. I havnt ran down hill before and have been told the slag will run "down" and interfere with the weldment. Slag in the weldment, not good!! LOL

I just checked the Lincoln site, its calling for Pipeliner LH-D80. Thanks Steve, I"ll get hold of the local dealer. Jeff

Hi everyone

Hello guys,I'm new in this article, but We've recognized the following considering that beta.

Jeff H.

Be sure there is drainage for those 4X4s

air conditioners

trane xv95

John Odom

Thanks John, I"m gonna drill a few 1/2" holes around the base of each one. On the tops, I"m gonna drill a small hole and spray in that expanding foam to keep the water out from now on. I"d weld a plate over the tops but I cant get at them.

Rain rain rain in Southeastern Ont.

More likely the foam will just get waterlogged and hold wetness against the metal!

Thomas

Or drop down and block the drain holes at the bottom . . .

Guess you could try threading a plastic bag in through the hole and then "inflating" it with foam. But if you do, squirt a little water in the bag first. I tried something similar and discovered the foam won't cure without moisture.

Water logged

If you can not cap it. Don't stop the flow.
You better off letting it run through than attempting to keep it out.
If it can get out it will leave some rust but the foam would just cause a bigger pooch/bust it the pipe.

chuck

Thanks again guys, I"ll leave the top open then the water can drain out.

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carrier air conditioner

carrier ac filters

I want the New Year.

:)

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Stewart

That is one big Hay Bud. The steam & gas engine club I belong to has one just under 600#.

Хочу поп

У меня на этаже есть уважаемый (в кавычках) сосед, который собрался купить кухню. Он приглашает меня к себе домой спустя некоторое время после этой покупки. То, что я увидел, меня просто восхитило – такой кухни в москве я никогда не находил. Она заставила меня удивиться ассортимент&#
1091; сторон, что я считал самыми первостепен&#
1085;ыми для любого кухонного гарнитура – стиль , комфорт , простор , удобство . Как и полагается, я начал выпытывать у соседа о том, где он раздобыл такую красивую кухню. Вообще, Виталик (мой сосед) – путёвый мужик, но все, кто с ним хотя бы раз общался, знали его самые плохие качества – это неистовая жадность и зависть . И эти плохие стороны сыграли здесь самую главную роль, потому как я так ничего от него и не услышал. Безответным&#
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Нельзя сказать, что я сам завистью страдаю. Мы с женой всё никак не могли отыскать ничего стоящего, хотя стремление приобрести новую мебель для кухни возникло у нас уже достаточно давно. Думаю, все хорошо знают о том, что у нас не очень просторные квартиры. Особо развернутьс&#
1103; в нашей кухне невозможно. Однако, как и всем, хочется чтобы и стильно , и уютно , и красиво было , и комфортно . Я жене сказал, что когда был у соседа, видел отличную кухню, которая идеально подошла бы нам в нашу кухню, но этот гад молчит и не желает даже намекнуть.

Но вот один раз, гуляю я по инэту и вижу интересное фото – на нём точно такой же кухонный гарнитур. Ох и радости было у меня, ппц. Тут же звоню в эту компанию: вы изготавлива&#
1077;те кухни на заказ – спрашиваю. Через две-три недели нашу обновочку привезли к нам. Собрали, установили. Зову соседа-педа. Чё с ним случилось, когда он это увидел? Его лицо стало таким злым, что страшно было на него даже посмотреть. Он всё таки малость обиделся и ушёл.

C той поры уже прошло достаточно времени, а у нас и сейчас с ним “холодная” война. И блин, смешно рассказать – из-за кухни. При чём между нами идёт односторонн&#
1103;я война, которая идёт в направлении меня. У меня к нему совсем нет претензий, а он меня, едва видит, так стереть в порошок готов. Зная его заскоки, даже машину стараюсь под окнами его не парковать, а то вдруг. ))

Теперь уже я занят поисками уже нового кухонного гарнитура. Кстати, я тут пораскинул мозгами и пришёл к выводу, что война станет более масштабной, если что-то подобное произойдёт ещё раз. Захотелось новый кухонный гарнитурчик заказать, но вот где? Сижу теперь, мозги ломаю. Основная цель – избежать повторения.

for Tony

Louise & I went to the 25th annual world Champion Punkin Chunkin competition in Bridgeville Delaware over the weekend. Over 100 machines in various categories tried to propel the hapless gourds the farthest in their class. The longest one the day we were there was about 3,700 feet accomplished by a pneumatic cannon. There is a trebuchet class that would be right up Tony's alley although I don't think they'd et him set one (pumpkin) on fire.Go to punkinchunkin.com to check it out.The Science Channel was there filming a segment for those of you who have cable tv.

Blacksmith content: they really put the hammer down!

Tom C

Jim Fecteau

AWESOME work!!!

Thanks Dave

I posted pictures over at farwestforge for those that are wondering. I post there as it goes quick.

Snowed here yesterday. 1" of wet stuff. Charlotte was out on the back hill sliding after school. FUN..
JIM

Rudy HEADS UP

Your friendly neighborhood Harbor Freight Store has a air belt sander #97055-1veh on sale for 19.99 (regular price $29.00). Good till Nov. 25, 2010.
AVAILABLE STORE ,PHONE OR WEB. Good luck

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

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u tube

Go to u tube and ask for user name Haybuden. Theres several video,s Of IBA conference Steam hammer work, a couple of IBA,s 30 anniversary (welding WI for Cliftons son,s grave marker, and one of a Joels shop, (just pictures, but worth seeing.)

I posted the u tube link, but forgemagic thought it was spam, and kicked it out.

Re u tube pictures

The pictures are of Joel Sandersons shop in Michigan. Everything ran off line shafts. Some of IBA's members took a little trip north to visit Joels shop.

dw-old trail

nice videos! thanks for the suggestion. Just leave off the h t t p : / / or space it out like this and it will go through.

the link

Try that ...... Thank dw - old trail
youtube.com/watch?v=K6EWCwwZA_Q

Veterans Day

Thanks for your service one and all.
JIM

Veterans Day

A most sincere thanks to all you veterans for the many freedoms we enjoy in this great country.

Buck

THANKS!

To all you vetrans. We don't really know where we'd be without you, but we know we'd not like being there....Joe

секс зна

Veterans

I OWE you.

Veterans

We ALL owe you. Thank you for serving!

Jack

To all my brother and sister Veterans, Welcome home and thank you for your service.

To all how have not served, but thanked, I can but quote Jim Paw Paw Wilson,
"It was an honor, not always a pleasure, but an Honor to serve"

Thanks and thanks

John Odom And Jim Fecteau:

Thanks for telling me how to avoid the spam block here.-At least some of the anti spam here is being blocked.

Thank to all the veterans.-------------- My nephew called me up from Norfolk this morning thinking me. Likewise I thinked him for his 20 years serving in the Navy. I joined up the first Saturday after graduating from high school. Never regreted it.

dw - old trail

Thanks for the link.

JIM

Szkolenia unijne

beautiful day in color pictures

Hi, today is a beautiful day in my life. I saw a first snow in this year and I save this photo for all people in the World!

Health

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Regards

Knife rebuild

Some months back, one of you rebuilt a leather handeled knife, for a friend.
I believe it had been in a fire.

I believe it was a USMC K-Bar.

I have a leather handeled knife I need to redo, and I need to know how you glued the leather pieces together, before you assembeled it back too it's finished form.

Thank you for any help.

Wally Verbeck
Cleveland, Tx.

Any one looking for line shaft stuff ?
This is on craigs list Elmira/Corning NY -;
elmira.craigslist.org/grd/2057439085.html

lineshaft stuff

I sent the link to Roger Smith. That's right up his alley.
Thanks, John.

Tom C

My KaBar

Wally That was my Kabar, and it was rebuilt by Glenn Moulton of Bainbridge GA. Sent an email addy to me at forgerii @ yahoo.com (remove spaces) and I'll send you the pictures and his email address. It turned out better than new.

knife rebuild

Thank you Mr. Odom.

I will send you my e-mail addy.

Have a good day.

Wally

Line Shaft

Decided to take a day trip to go see the line shaft stuff John mentioned earlier.

Line Shaft and Machinery

Not!

Line shaft machinery

So, what was it?

Tom C

Tom C

Sorry... It IS two line shafts and three pieces of line shaft equipment. I just meant it was not what I was expecting to see after I talked to the seller. There was too much damage on the tools, the motor (although very interesting) was small (1.5 HP) and the line shafts didn't have that magical look we would all like to see.

Ka-bar Knife Handle

The leather spacers are not glued togethor on a Ka-bar marine corp knife. I didn't assemble the handles, but worked in the department and watch it done many times. They were put on with an in house made press. I saw someone press their thumb on a tang once. Not saying you can't glue them, but the cutleries didn't do it that way. I don't know why anyone would want to because they are held tight by the fiber spacers and driven on pommel with a pin in it. The spacers/handle are finished and made even by hafting afterwards. If you are trying to make them perfect and finished by just assembly you are going about it wrong.

The knife I made at J.C. Campbell sch with Jim Batson had stacked leather handle that we did apoxy on then clamped.
For a shiny finish we spread SUPER GLUE on it. Looks good.

KaBar Handle

Yes, the factory original KaBar handle was not glued. It wouldn't be too hard to make a press so you could make the repair like the original, but we felt that for a one time job the gluing would be satisfactory and it was. I am VERY HAPPY with the job Glenn did.

Have I posted the story that goes with the knife here? If there is interest I can post it without pictures or email it with the pictures to anyone who is interested. Just email me at forgerii AT yahoo DOT com

John

Knife Repair

Best To use leather glue if you are going to use an adhesive on the leather spacers. You can also use a monkey type tool and hammer to drive spacers onto tang tight. Never ever use super glue on a knife or watch it is acidic and will cause rust and corrosion. You will notice how the old tanned leather sheath cause rust on knives because they used ashes in the curing process. Why do all of you custom knife makers or hobbiest want to glue knives so bad?? If you learn proper methods from a cutler you will not need too. Glue being used bu cutlery was a short trend in only the last 30 years and is avoided as much as possible once again.

Good info

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Glue

Glenn used epoxy on the KaBar, I don't know which type or brand.

Ahh old style tanning for sheathes, Veg Tan, did not used ashes, it used tanbark and is an acidic process---ashes are basic, NaOH.

Thomas who used to do his own tanning.

Good info

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Tanning

Wood ashes in a past with water (a strong alkali)was used to remove the hair. The actual tanning was with oak bark which does the tanning because of its high concentration of tannic acid. One of my great grandfathers was a tanner. In recent years, but seldom now because of environmental problems, Chromium compounds were used. That made VERY durable leather, but slightly corrosive to a blade.

re: kniferepair

Thanks everyone for all the info.

I thought there would be more "dinsity" to the handle,
if it were bonded, and then pressed.

What I know about knife repair, or building,
I could stand back 3 yards and through thru
the eye of a neddle. Not much!!!

Again, thanks.

Wally

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Leather

John,
Glad to learn about the leather tanning. Sheath making and leather is not my thing. Now the actual knives are a different story. I see some pretty darn nice custom knives made by a few folks here. Jeremy K's folder was my favorite.

Leather Sheaths

The guy that makes my sheaths is Dutch and I have never seen such fine work, leather or methods used. I don't know how he learned his craft, but it is clear leather workers today don't have his skills. I don't mess with perfection as I have a person who does the best and this has kept me from wasting my time away from my pursuits. I have seen many nice sheaths from knife maker's, but nothing that I have seen comes close. I guess he would be the Yellin of leather work. When I see the sheath making dvds I see really poor quality work, realizing it is still better than what I would make. I realized I could concentrate on the skill I have an let the best complement something I make with their talents. I have seen to many people trying to master twenty skill sets and never really accomplish a great deal in any area...not saying that is bad...doesn't work for me.

tanning Tom P

Tom P,

Could you break down veg and bark methods of tanning?? I would like to learn more about it ans I can imagine others would too. thanks

Tanning

Weren't brains used for tanning also?

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Wassup everybody !

Wassup y'all, I’m a newbie to this website, but I’ve been viewing it for some time now, and the info is fantastic. Thanks a million!

Tanning

It has been said that every animal has enough brains to tan its own hide.

Brain tanned leather

We do the Mountain Man Rondevous thing (fur trade era historical re-enactment, pre-1840). Brain tanned leather goods are very much sought after because they are considered "period".

I am clueless about the process, but some of the people still do it the old origional way. The leather is different than any I have ever seen. It is almost white in color and does not seem as pliable as modern leather, even though is is soft.

Since it is rare it is usually used to make smaller items like knife sheaths, small pouches, possibles bags, etc.

Buck

P. S.

One of the many on-line traders is Track of The Wolf. They have a DVD "Deer skins into Buckskins-how to tan with brains, soap or eggs" $23.95

I would imagine the other traders will have books on the subject as well.

B.

handles

WALLY-- Your are right in epoxy and leather for the leather handles.

NUMBER ONE BEING BLOOD EATS LEATHER.

Coat them, stack them, press them, let them dry, work them down to suit you. Then using a glossing rouge buff/shine the leather/epoxy and you have a handle for a lifetime that is impervious to just about anything within reason.

Many a WESTERN, CASE, MARBLE, KABAR knife and many others have had their handles eaten by blood acid.

Got to go to the skin Doc.

See ya

chuck

Good info

Hello! cccfbda interesting cccfbda site!

I mainly did tawing---with salt and alum on furs that you want to keep the hair on.

To do an traditional VegTan you dig a pit, line it so it doesn't leak and them make a tanbark ooze---oak is good but their are other barks with a lot of tannin in them too.

Take a cleaned fresh hide and immerse it in the ooze---this can be for several years! (See "The Brenden Voyage" for a description of them using the hides on the bottom that had been in the pit a long time!)

Then work and finish the hide. Veg tan is used a lot for tooling. Brain tan is a variant of oil tanned and is used for supple items.

I had a friend who did a small tanning experiment with pomegranate rinds as the tannin source.

Thomas

Wally Epoxy

Wally as Sanpile points out leather isn't a good material for handles. Have you considered using another material that would be more durable and not require a cob jog with glue? You have several other options and you could go outside the box and not use the same material that was on the knife. Anyone who uses epoxy on a knife is what we call a "BUTCHER" in the trade. Handling the knife properly with a non-original material used on that particular pattern would still be a respectable. Sounds like Sand got some glue on his hide.

Condolences

Sandpile, Sorry to hear of the loss of your friend.

Chuck, I have an old Navy MK-II sheath knife, that my oldest brother bought in about 1965 for $0.75 at the surplus store. First day he owned it he was trying to throw it and broke off the pommel. The leather washer handle begain to come off washer by washer. I ended up with it about 30 years ago, and it is still in my shop. The pommel is long gone. The blade is not bad, and the sheath a odd plastic kind of thing is also not bad although the retention strap in missing on side of the snap. I think the pommel was riveted on, but since I don't have the pommel, I have been thinking of how to put a decent pommel on. If I epoxied on the new leather washers, That would relieve the pommel of part of the load. Pretty small tang. Ideas?

Pommel

The pommel of the KaBar was held on by a steel pin.

Leather

Boot, top, dasher, from tough old hide
Found in the pit when the tanner died

"One Hoss Shay"
Oliver Wendell Holmes

Tanning

Some Japanese leather was tanner with tea, but oak bark was the most common source of tannic acid.

Pommel

Jeff,
How about using that PC-Product two part epoxy puddy. You could roll it in a ball and push it down on the tang and it will harden like a rock. It will meet the forgemagic knife making standards with flying colors.

Good info

Hello! gddddkb interesting gddddkb site!

Cutler

On this site, we don't put people down. No one here but you has suggested using epoxy putty (or puddy). A lot of very fine knifemakers use appropriately chosen epoxies, when appropriate.

Post some pictures of your knives. I am not a knife maker, but plan to try someday. Forgemagic is not a knifemakers site per se, it is a general blacksmithing site with a few members who make knives. The knife makers here range from very good to rank novices or even wannabes like me. I do enjoy the pictures of other's knives.

John Odom
You fools insist epoxy is ok on knives and don't want to learn anything. Just following your protocol. It just proves you can't help teach nasty stubbord old redneck bastard anything. Why don't you go epoxy your little tadpole to your lip.

That's very bad form, my friend. Keep your posts civil.

Tom C

Broken Pommel

JEFF-- You can forge weld, tig weld and drill for any kind of buttcap you want. Wet rag the blade from behind the guard. I hate Aluminum, it loads everything up so bad. Look in the gallery at the horn and leather handle I put in there. It is easyier to find on DARRELS site.

Make enough rings to over fill the tang. You can make an opening for the blade to slip through on a set of wood workers pipe clamps with your guard right against the slit and the butt cap under the clamp on the other end and mash/screw it down till you get to where you can pin it.

Heavy skirting leather or the leather from an old stirrup leather. I sand the rings on the flesh side.

Okay CUTLER--You can take your fingers out of your ears and open your eyes.GRIN

chuck

HUH? bad manners

I believe we just figured out who the Cutler is.

chuck

Manners

TOM C. was not thinking of you but of the BAD manners of the cutler(poster) we have seen in a long time.

chuck

proof then post

Just have read ---have not seen in a long time.--- But I think he is back

chuck

Pommel

JEFF--maybe you could cast a new pommel or get a block of nickel-silver--or desired material--and mill a slot to have a slight interference fit with your tang and turn it on a lathe using a graver to your desired shape. Drill tang for pin. Put on your handle then drive fit, interfer pin and your good to go. In our gallery we do not allow glued up knives. not commenting further.

knives

Knives in gallery
Bill Cottrell...very professional--excellent knives--best
Glenn...awesome
Bob H...very nice
Chuck B...nice start...little practice will get there
miss anyone?

I need a blacksmith! D:

Hello. My name is Dillon Neighbors. I am not a blacksmith XD I am in fact a wood worker. however I am also a swordsman and one of a group of individuals attempting to start a small community in the mountains in oregon. what we are attempting to do is go back to the way people used to live, althought not quite as extreme as the amish are. (but thats fine if you want of course)but we were hoping to establish this community in about five years or so. my friend Vina and I are both swordsmen so you can imagine why blacksmithing would be a usefull skill to have around. so if there are any good blacksmiths out there who want to perhaps collaborate with us in this goal, please , PLEASE email me! no race age gender ethnicity. does not matter even a tiny little bit! only that your skill is marketable and you can make swords XD so anyone who wishes to be a part of this one of a kind dream please Email me. thank you

CUTLER-- I took a class from Jim Batson , one of the most well famous knife makers in the country. I have a friend that is a "Master Bladesmith" also and both of them use epoxy/glue on handles for some of thier knifes.
Do YOU have a "Master Bladesmith" title ?
I dought it !!
If you want to contribute to this fourm with tips , how to's , and suggestions then fine, welcome.
If your going to say rude things and have a "my way or nothing" additude and put down the folks here that are doing thier best then piss off.

No problem, Chuck. I had a feeling about his identity, too.

Tom c

Best whores ever

DELETE THIS FUCKIN POST

Stubborn old redneck

It seems to me the best way to deal with that rudeness is to just scroll right on past those posts. I know I have read my last post from friend Cuttler.

Buck

Quote from Blacksmiths Junkyard

Check out the date....

Bad behavior comes from insecurity and fear.
Michael M. Blacksmiths Junkyard…Nov. 21—6:32 PST 2002

Buck

I smell smoke.

John fee
"my way or nothing" additude
You folks have that attitude. Steal any anvils from corning glass lately John??

Sorry

I am sorry all and will leave and never even come back to even look. I really didn't mean to upset anyone and fire back at anyone. I was just trying to help and probably came off wrong. I know John, John and Chuck are good folks and I am sorry for things said. I don't feel glue is a right method and in the cutlery world it isn't, but if you are happy with using glue it is good for you. I know let the door hit me on the way out. Good ridence...troll to me..dumbass I am...etc...

I don't know what "cutlery world" you are in but I trained under a professional swordmaker (as in multi K$ per blade---back in the 80's!),he was a long term member of the Knifemakers Guild of America, etc and he used epoxy at times---especially to exclude moisture from places it shouldn't be!

Thomas

"masters"

I'm almost always embarrased for a guy who will introduce himself as a "master" of anything to a group of strangers. I agree that they do exist, but one usually has to find out that they are "masters" from someone else, not the guy who CLAIMS mastery.

Exceptions, of course, would be those with some sort of accredation.

A "master" of any trade might be recognised for any or all of a collection of skills, ranging from pleasing designs to technical expertise to the ability to please a wide range of customers, not just a narrow niche, but I have really never enountered a true "master" who was also a horses ass. The two qualities seem to be mutually exclusive, or perhaps the possesion of one prevents the attaining of the other.

....Joe, who's not a master of anything

"masters"

I am not defending "The Cutler" cause he is very outspoken. Know this person is one of the top concerning folding knives. No different than F. Whitaker in my opinion.

defender

BRIAN PEASEL--If that is the case you can furnish a name, phone number plus a location we can go to see the work of this master. I am sure there would be somebody close enough to meet him and enjoy his presence and work.

Thanks in advance for the information.

chuck

typo

Sorry about the typo.

chuck

سكس

just wanna say hi ,, :)
>
>
>
>
any one from Romania ?

happy to talk with all of u .

Master Cutler

I am sorry he chose to go. I am sure he could have taught some of us Some techniques.

I think that many of the ancient craftsman would love some of the new materials we have available in our time. I still am interested in how it was done with the older materials only.

Brian, tell him we really aren't hard to get along with, we just value playing nicely together, unlike some other groups that I have bailed out of!

Cutler's Cement

I knew I had heard the term somewhere.

Cutler’s cement is made of equal parts of brick-dust and melted resin, and is used for fixing knife-blades in their hafts.

From:h t t p : / / w w w.1902encyclopedia.com/C/CEM/cements.html

It also used to be listed in the "laboratory arts and recopies" section of various handbooks. I can't believe that this material is in all situations better than epoxy. At least we know cutlers DID use cements.

Master

I have been blacksmithing regularly for over 10 years. Basically one day a week and half time smithing and half talking to the children. I tell the children I am a blacksmith, because w limited time for the visit, it's easier than going into detail. But I always feel a little uncomfortable w the claim.

forge magic etiquette

Jack Fahren /Bill Barton :

Lets keep this site clean talking. -------------If your going to post, don't be afraid of giving your true name. Be a man.

Last post about "masters"

If one were to google "master cutler", one would find that the gentleman in question is either a train or the business head of a british knife manufacturing concern who needn't know anything about making knives to hold that job or, more likely, our traditional historical "great accuser" who repreatedly insults, acuses, retracts and starts over. Best not to feed trolls, because one can catch all manner of ailments under bridges.....Joe

Best whores ever

DELETE THIS FUCKIN POST

Brain tanning

Just stumbled across a site telling how to cure deerhides w brain. Interesting point was Murphy's Oil Soap was a substitute for brains.

Brain-Tanning

I understand that is a variation on oil-tanning, and relies on the high fat content of the brain tissue.

Brain-tanning

If memory serves, I think the topic was covered in one of the Foxfire books, of course a lot else was too.

Rich Waugh

Originally posted on farwestforge.com:

Thought I should let you know that Rich Waugh was diagnosed with dengue fever 10/12.
On 10/14 one of his lungs collapsed and he is in the emergency room in the hospital in St. Croix. They installed a chest tube.
On 10/16 Rich was still in hospital, still had chest tube (he just won’t let go of anything ), and the Doctor discovered he has sever pneumonia in one lung. They gave him IV antibiotics. There were talking about continuing the antibiotics and then sending him home Thursday or Friday.
On 10/18 Rich continues to be stubborn as usual ☺☺. He has not improved regarding the pneumonia, he now has sepsis of the blood, and managed to pull out his chest tube somewhat prematurely. Prediction is now a week more in the hospital. He is currently on three killer IV antibiotics. Doctors are zeroing in, somewhat, on what to treat. Not much to do but wait and pray… ..... And that's why I'm posting this here. Do what ever you'd like to send positive stuff his way. He needs it, the doctors need it, his wife, and family need it.

Thanks for the heads up, John!

We'll send up prayers and get him on the list at church...Joe

Rich Waugh

Sorry to hear of the health problems.. Prayers from our family to yours.

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

Best whores ever

DELETE THIS FUCKIN POST

Rich Waugh

It's been tough knowing about Rich's struggle these last few days. He let several of us know about the Dengue diagnosis and then was suddenly in real trouble. Rich's brother Riley has been keeping us updated when he can so I'm sure Jim will pass along any significant news to all. In the meantime please pray for him if you do or scratch your dog if that's what you do instead, but keep him in your thoughts and hope for a quick recovery. I'd ask everybody to please resist the urge to call the house as I know that his wife is thoroughly worn out from this strain and doesn't need any extra hassles right now. If you want to send a card you can find the address on Rich's website. (Carribean Blacksmith) Steve G

Hi there friends !

Hi folks colleagues, I’m a fledgling to this type of web site, on the other hand I’ve recently been looking at this for a long time now, and the subject material is really outstanding . Thank you.

Murphy's Oil Soap

Thanks for the tip Rudy,next time I can't figure something out I will slather it with Murphy's and see if it resolves itself. :-)

Belly Rubs

Repeated rubs of the cat's belly for Rich W.

Get well, Rich. We're pulling for you.

Tom C

Rich Brain Murphy

Get well Rich.

brains:

As a kid, I remember my mom ordering brain sandwiches at a country resturant/tavern during our trips to a friends farm.

Murphy soap:
I remember useing this soap on the wifes kitchen cabinets. Sure good cleaner (varnish and all).-grin-

blacksmithing:
A budy is picking me up in the morning to go to IBA,s monthly meeting. Bob Haverstock= this is in Terre Haute Fowler Park Be There -grin-

IBA Meeting

Hi Dave,

Sure wish I could go to your meeting. Lilly has dibs on me helping her get ready for a Thanksgiving Dinner that happens Sunday. I really do want to attend one of those meetings. When is the next one at Terre Haute? BTW, Lilly is going to be a Granny again!

I finally got an old farm wagon running gears, needs tires, It is my goal to build a sheperd's cabin on it. The running gears will keep it high and dry with moving air under it. It will have some iron work on it and in it.

Bob Haverstock

Bob Haverstock

Congratulations on the second grandchild..... They are the best....

Dengue

I read about dengue fever on wikipedia & it doesn't sound like any fun at all. The good news is it's rarely fatal. The bad news is it sometimes is & the symptoms are painful.
Maybe now Rich'll stop smoking.

Tom C

Bob Haverstock

Awesome news about the new grandbaby! When?
Bev

EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT

Dengue fever
wxwxw.niaid.nih.gov/topics/denguefever/pages/default.aspx
Perhaps his brother could get these people to look in on him, I doubt we can even get him here.

Dengue

Dengue fever - - also know as "break bone fever".

Draw your own conclusions.

Terre Haute meetings

Bob Haverstock:

Congradulations to you and Lilly.---------Good luck on the sheperd's wagon.----My neighbor belonged to a mule club, they had home made wagons that pulled on trails etc. He built several wagons and sold them. Got brake systems from a junk yard near us. The club had there own outhouse they had seting on one of there wagons. Always having a potty when on a wagon trail ride is nice.
Usually the Terre Haute group meets on the second Saturday. Don't know about Decembers meeting.----Doug Moreland is the forgemaster. Hes from Illinois, do you know him?

Sheperds Wagon

In this part of the country they are called a Home on the Range, and are greatly sought after. A friend of mine buys them and restores them.

There is also a company that is building new ones that have a modern undercarriage that allows them to be pulled on the hiway like a travel trailer.

Not nearly as cool as the original ones that were designed to be pulled with a team of horses. Most of the old ones I have seen are built on an old car or truck chassis.

Buck

Rich Waugh

OK Guys, Its Monday morning and I just got off the phone with Rich. He's still in hospital but doing much better. Though he has a long way to go he's at least recovering. He was able not only to converse a while but joke around a bit too. Keep those good thoughts and prayers going for Rich and for his wife; they'll need them for while longer. Steve G

SGensh- Good news Steve, Thankx

Rich's up-date misc. wagons misc

Sheperds Wagon

Around here, Gypsy's wagon is what they called a similar thing.----Not much sheperding in the mid west.

Good news on Rich. thanks for the up date.

Misc.

Raining and 40 mph winds tonight.( I'm not complaing about the rain because we just came through one of the driest summers on record) open burn band was just canceled this week) I've got a lot of brush to burn out back.

Tomorrow morning I'm meeting a friend, to help him bag a ton /or so of coal. We got to drive 130 miles, but the price is right. $255 a ton loose or $8 a bag already sacked. I don't need any myself because I'm stocked up on coke that will last me for a good while.------------Our old supplier was only 60 miles west of me but they went out of business. Now we have three sources in the state. As of right now, only one of the three sources sells it loose. The other two that doesn't, one sells 50# bag for $14 and the other $18 a bag with some discount if you buy several bags.-----Competion helps.--------

wagons

The sheepherders wagons that were out here were made mostly on a farm wagon running gears. It seems they all had small diameter wheels.

The floors were(looked like)lapped siding boards and the curved housing on the chassis was thin tongue and groove cypress or redwood. The back left rear inside corner was enclosed with galvanized metal for the little one skillet and coffee pot sized woodstove. One small window in the door, another in the front flat wall. Cupboards and storage room all had doors that fell down rather that sideways.

I saw one wagon with a 3/4 size bed. It was a BASQUE herder and he either had his wife or one of his grown boys with him all the time, HENRI(Basque) was a cranky old fart.

They had a flock of over three thousand head that belonged to BOND-WILLARD LAND AND LIVESTOCK. They had the VALLE GRANDE RANCH leased. State of New Mexico eventually bought the ranch for a state park They call it the BACA GRANDE. 80,000 or so of deeded land plus a huge amount of Forestry and BLM land was in the old VALLE GRANDE.

Xmas orders.

See ya

chuck

Rich Waugh

Got a call from Rich tonight. He sounded great considering. He'll be home tomorrow!!
It was a dam close call. I'll let him fill you all in as I'm sure he will be taking it real easy for a week or 2.
JIM

Rich

Thanks for the up date, Jim. Sure is good news.

Been snowing here since about 4:00 AM. Inch and a half or so already.

Hope everyone has a great and safe Thanksgiving.

Buck

Rich Waugh

Glad to hear you are doing better... A little forging is always good medicine...

Or....... Chicken Soup!

Thanksgiving

May you all have a joyful holiday! Safe travels for those of you traveling. We are recovering from nine inches of snow on Monday and waiting for the next snow storm that is slowly beginning as I type.

Bev

Happy Thanksgiving

Happy thanksgiving to all. We all have so much to be thankful for. Even the poorest in America are far better off than most of the world's population.

Happy Thanksgiving

..........to all!!

Snow??? I wore a short sleeved shirt to work today---no jacket either. Haven't had the heat on in the house for a week or so either (but a wood stove is a fast turnaround system)

Thomas

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Thanksgiving

Have a safe one to all.

Rain and some sleet today. Not complaing about the rain, because we need it.

Happy Thanksgiving all. Jeff, Congrats on the continuing trowel sales!

Rich made it home today. Steve G

Happy Thanksgiving All.....

We are supposed to get just a little hint of colder weather from the storm that is crossing the country. This fall has been extremely mild compared to last year. We haven't even had a frost where I live (surrounding areas have).

A local forecaster states that we should be warmer than normal this winter with only 8-14 inches of snow (total). I think Washington DC reported 58 or 59 inches of snow last winter. I know we got a lot more than that at our home.

I closed in the canopy (the section where the 3B is) and wonder if I even needed to.

I'm doing a little forging, but not much. I'm making tooling for slitting, punching, drifting in preparation for making some hammers. I'm also playing (a bit) with a 10 HP (10 GPM rated) hydraulic pump and a large cylinder. I probably will make another press (around 50 tons). I wish I had a good place to put it.

Lots of grandkids time this past few weeks.

Happy Thanksgiving!

John Odom I will second how fortunate we all are in the USA.

I like everyone else here is thankfull for Rich's recovery.

Dave Hammer- If'n yer lookin fer a place to put your big ass press , I would be glad to store it for ya for a few years :-)

Talking about Forex

Pardon - do anybody know - are there any really free trading signals that works?

Happy Thanks Giving

I hope you guys all enjoy the big Day, is that tomorrow? Winter is here, forecast low tonight is -26ºF, I have been forging in the shop and keeping the doors open. I'm trying to finish a large sculpture for Friday and doubt that it will be done. We are having an open house at our Studio Friday/Saturday and the piece may go as a work in progress.

Rich sorry to hear that you were/are sick, Take care of yourself, and listen to that personal nurse you have on retainer, You might find that she is worth way more than you are paying her :)

Happy Thanksgiving!

We (Lilly & I) hope that all of you have a safe and pleasant day today. For us, the "Family Feed" was last Sunday. This turkey is going to have a relaxing day at home with his wife. I can almost smell the oyster soup and pecan pie!

I didn't need the annual presidential pardon this year, my behavior was somewhat improved or overlooked.

Bob Haverstock

Happy Thanksgiving

Linda and I hope you all have a very nice day today.

17 degrees here this morning. It is very unusual for us to drop into the teens.

Buck

Rich Waugh Hope you get better real fast now.

Happy Turkey Day One and All

I've contracted a head cold as my initiation to the fall season change along the upper Chesapeake.

Thanksgiving

Wonderful Day!-- Lots of kinfolks and kids galore. Great food good conversations.

Cool but no wind to speak of. It was 8 degrees this morning but warmed up to high 30s.

Hope everyone has a great day and the travelers get where they are going in the swiftest safest way they can.

God Bless our military service people! Without them we could not have this day.

chuck

Went to my Brothers in Nichlasville KY for the family get together. Stopped by and picked up my Mother on the way. Rained both ways. Need the rain badly, and the temp is dropping.

happy thanksgiving!

To one and all.....Joe and Janet

MINERS

SPARKY-- Sorry to hear of the 29 miners in the New Zealand Coal mine.

That is very sad for the family and friends of the lost miners.

God Bless

chuck

Have a look!

w w w.nytimes.com/2010/11/25/world/asia/25blacksmith.html

Blacksmith Street

Nice link, Jim! Thanks!

Thanksgiving

Sorry this is so wordy, but I wanted to get the facts in. Knowing me, it would be wordy if it was just my obit. (grin)

Getting Ready for Thanksgiving
by
Rich Waugh

Well, today is Thanksgiving, 2010, and I must say that I truly do have reason to give thanks this year. Most years I don’t get too damn excited about Thanksgiving, as I don’t much care for turkey, prefer people in small groups and honestly resent any “obligatory” holidays. So I generally just fade into the woodwork a few days in advance and let others have their fun, poking my head back out only after the smoke has cleared. This year, however, events conspired to make me actually feel thankful just to be around and have a few good friends.

For the past couple of months I’ve felt a bit under the weather from time to time – oh, nothing bad enough to go to the doctor for, just enough to feel cruddy and have no energy. I kept telling myself it would pass, and it would, for a few days. Up and down, up and down, so I went.

On Wednesday, November 10th, there was a tour group booked for the museum, despite flash flood warnings posted by the National Weather Service for the island. Of course, the museum is located in a valley, with access by a bridge over a runoff gut. Despite seeing rising water in the gut and knowing its propensity for flooding, the tour bus driver saw fit to come into the site. Within twenty minutes the rainfall rate had risen to more than 5”/hr and floodwaters were raging over the bridge at the rate of nearly 2000 cfs. Shortly thereafter, the floodwaters had undermined the driveway on the Museum side of the gut to the point it was unsafe for vehicular traffic of any kind. Great – we now have fourteen Danish tourists and their guides trapped on-site with no way of knowing when the waters might recede sufficiently to extricate them. Even better, three of them, all over 70 years old, are in critical need of medication they neglected to have with them. Fine planning, I say.

I reached the Rescue Group headquarters by telephone and let them know the situation and that I would attempt a lifeline extraction as soon as the waters fell just enough. That plan actually came together and I got all of them out of here without incident. Using alternate transportation they were whisked away to their cozy hotel rooms, I suppose. I was just glad to be shut of them, quite frankly. I was cold, wet, exhausted and miserable and only wanted to bathe and rest.

On Thursday I was feeling more than just a mite peaked and running a moderate fever. I attributed that to the stress and wet of the previous day and ignored it. By Friday, the fever was up to 102.5° so I decided to err on the side of caution and go to the doc. By the time I reached his office an hour or so later, the fever was now up to 103.6° and I was feeling pretty low. The doc did the customary poking, prodding, peering and listening and said he thought I might possibly have Dengue Fever, a mosquito-borne nastiness nobody wants. He drew some blood to be tested and sent me home to rest. That “rest” lasted until Sunday afternoon when Sally insisted I go to the Emergency Room. I really don’t like hospitals, but I had to agree that I felt pretty poorly. Off we went.

Upon arrival at the ER, they took one look at me and ran me straight into Triage. Within minutes they’d done a chest X-ray, determined I’d had a spontaneous pneumothorax (collapsed lung), and shot me half full of morphine. The ER doc was a very engaging fellow and tried his best to give me a snow job about how the lung re-inflation procedure was very routine and nearly painless. No sale – I know better, unfortunately. So we spent a few agonizing minutes while he struggled to ram a sharpened ½” tube between my ribs and I screamed and whined like a frightened little girl. He finally prevailed and the chest tube was in and I was in line for admittance to the hospital proper. Sounds simple, right? Not for me, it wasn’t.

Oh, they got me admitted to a room on the Progressive Care Unit (think Intensive Care Lite) and started tests to see what all else was wrong in there. No surprise; I had a raging case of pneumonia at that point, so they jacked me full of IV antibiotics in an attempt to deal with a white cell count somewhere north of 27,000. That was good for a day or so until I started running a way bad fever and becoming delirious. Add more antibiotics, of course. No change. Pack my bony body in ice packs – damned uncomfortable, that. Somewhere along in there the heart rate suddenly leaps up to 155/min. Then 165/min. When it got to 177 on the third day they finally decided there was no other choice than to do a “cardioversion.” That’s a delicate way of saying, “We’re going to electrocute you to stop your heart completely and then we’ll try to re-start it, hoping it comes back in at a righteous rate like 60-75 or so.” That was another of those “simple” procedures. Zzzzzzap! About 20,000 Joules front to back with the super bug-zapper and I was back to ticking like a well-oiled Swiss watch, I’m happy to report. Couldn’t have told you squat about it at the time, however, as I was out to lunch both mentally and physically.

A brief note here for prospective pneumothorax patients: hooking your chest drain to the IV pole and then walking away is neither the recommended removal procedure nor is particularly comfortable. To say nothing of the fact it really annoys hell out of the guy who is responsible for it. I owe someone an apology for that bit of delirium-induced drama.

At that time, somewhere around Wednesday the 17th, I think, they acknowledged I was going into sepsis and not doing too well, in fact. Medical shorthand for, dying unless we get damned lucky somehow! Out to lunch or not, I already knew that at a very intimate level – I could actually FEEL myself dying. I wasn’t happy about it, either. I couldn’t express it, since I was incapable of making a coherent thought come out of my mouth. No surprise there, I guess. I had hallucinations, too. Not everything I saw was a hallucination, unfortunately. Looking at Sally’s face and seeing the look of abject terror there just about ripped my heart right out of my chest. I’ve never seen her so totally, unreservedly terrified. I vowed then and there that I would NOT let this shit kill me, no matter how much of a relief it would have been to just let go.

More blood tests, sputum tests, tests of every nasty thing that comes out of a human body from any possible orifice, in fact. More bad news – my lungs are not only infected with pneumonia, but also with pseudomonas, a particularly virulent and drug-resistant gram-negative bacteria. (I probably picked that up from the flood waters in the gut while getting the Danes out.) Add another couple antibiotics to the stew they’re dumping in me. Of course, the effect of all these radical antibiotics on my guts was nothing short of nightmarish. Suffice it to say I really, really didn’t want to be me right then. Finally took more than ten days to feel like I could cough without danger of embarrassing myself. In the meanwhile I was embarrassed - a lot. Enough said about that.

Days and days of continual IV antibiotics, one after another, likewise oral antibiotics. A total of five different ones, I believe, in an effort to kill what was killing me. An endless nightmare of tubes, hoses, needles, pills, tests, X-rays, and each morning hoping that the damnable white count would be down from the day before. On or about Saturday the 20th it finally started to drop – not far, not fast, but definitely a drop for the first time. The next day a bit more, then a slight rise, then another drop, and so on. It began to seem as though I might actually be released someday. Finally, on Wednesday the 24th, I was able to leave the hospital; achy, shaky, sore, tired - and immensely grateful just to be alive.

I came home and spent almost thirty-five minutes in the shower, repeatedly soaping up and then rinsing, trying to scrub that whole experience off me. That failed, but I did smell better for it.

There are those who say that health care on St. Croix is sub-par. They are wrong. All the doctors who attended me were consummate professionals and did their very best for me. My nursing care was variable, from fine to superlative. The hospital food really and truly sucked – I’d probably have been disappointed if it hadn’t. (Would you really trust a hospital with good food? Me neither.) In the final analysis, the medical professionals at the hospital here beat some long odds and saved my life – the result of damn good medicine, not good luck. I owe them my life, but I’ll probably cheap out and just pay the bill.

With terrific medical care, an absolutely wonderful wife/nurse/Rock of Gibraltar, and a small group of friends without peer, I came through what was undeniably the most terrifying episode in a rather long and most checkered life. I have much to be thankful for and I truly am.

While it may come as a disappointment to some, the estate sale has once again been postponed indefinitely.

Rich

Great to hear you are on the mend and still with us. A great reason for Thanks Giving, Cheers to you and Sally.

Rich W.

Glad to hear you made it home OK Rich... Be careful where you tread in the future and stay away from the critters that caused you pain. Sally will slap you silly if you put her through that again.

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Rich W.

Rich,

That is great news!! It is good to read that you are back with us. Have a whole big bunch of good days!

Bob Haverstock

Wow! What a story! You're a tough old bird. I'm glad you made it back from the brink.

Tom C

Rich Waugh

Welcome back buddy. You forgot the few days spent in the hallway...........
JIM

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

Rich To Good Health

Welcome back Rich. Glad you are much improved. You scared the heck out of everyone. Just know I am sorry for any time I have pissed you off. I am really thankful you recovered.

glad you are still with us Rich

Only the best people can have an experience that messed up and then offer a kind of funny description of it.I hope your recovery goes well.

Rich Waugh

Congratulations on your return trip! I know how sweet this ol' world looks when one had thought he might be leaving it. Glad you'll be around for the next chapter....Joe

Views from the other side

Hey, thanks for the kind words, guys! It's been a bit of an E-ticket ride for sure, but life tends to come at you that way sometimes. I'm still ridin' the tiger, however - can't figure out how to get off safely.

Rich

Price on metal

I just went to:

ht(remove)tp://www1(remove this).mscd(this too)irect.(and this)com - maybe this will get past the spam blocker . . .

These guys are selling "cold finish" 1018 for what seems to be $3/lb.

Am I completely out of the loop, or is this REAL 1018 and as expensive as most tool steel?

"cold finish" 1018

"cold finish" 1018 is NOT tool steel. cold roll is just a step in the process to make the sample more certifiable . It should have 18 points of carbon and be the correct size say 1/2" x1/2" with sharp corners and no scale if that's what they are selling.
If it were a36 it could be from 1006 to 1029, and have mill scale.
The advantage to cold finish is that it should be consistent from one batch to another. It should be available from your steel supplier for less than 3.00/lb

Belt Grinder

Sandpile: I like the 2" x 72" hollow grinder setup you put togethor. It is the most simple low cost method I have seen.

I am SORRY to anyone I have ever pissed off or argued with. I don't expect any forgiveness from anyone as I realize it will have to be earned and proven by me. I am working hard at turning over a new leaf. I am starting fresh from this point forward. "Life is just too short to argue"

Burnt Forge

Here comes Lucy!

And she's really gonna let me kick the football this time!

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Today "The Southern Indiana Meteor Mashers" met at my pretty cold, unheated shop. We did have a small tank top infra-red heater to warm up at. Items made today: 2 bud roses, a carpenters hatchet from pavement breaker bit, a viking knife, two layout scribes, and I have to confess, a Damascus steel trowel.
Billy Merrit, "The King of Junkyard Damascuc" was induced to move out of the warming glow of the heater and weld a billet. Starting with very large wire rope, a flat wide billet was made, and cut into 2 equal parts. Those were welded on either side of a leaf spring hunk, and then forged square, for yours truly to then forge into a damascus trowel. The trowel has been forged and rough ground and etched to see the paettern. I need to finish grind and polish then etch and I will have a true one off damascus trowel:) I even upset the head for a sort of RR Spike head, and twisted the handle area.
These guys have taken a self respecting general blacksmith and led him to the dark side. They have me making sharp things like little knives and tomahawks and now damascus, even though they snuck me into that one by starting me on a trowel. I bet if I am not careful they will have me do a damascus knife or tomahawk next:)

We enjoyed smoked turkey for lunch, and a good time was had by all.

Jeff R.

Sounds like it was a first class day to me.... I wish I could have been there.

Dave Hammer, Indeed a first class day. Lots of good natured joking. Since most of the Meteor Mashers are knife makers I constantly tease about how they are trying to draw me to the dark side and make damascus knives. The knives i have made are all pretty primitive. Billy makes swords that have meteor incorporated in them. Steve King who hosts most of the monthly meetings makes very very nice knives as well. There are about 10 more in the group who make excellent knives, and then there is me, who can make lots of stuff, but not a well ground nice knife:)

If you are in the area during the last Saturday of the month, drop in, you will be most welcome.

Poker

I posted oictures of a poker I made over on Farwestforge.com. this gallery was just too slow!

Jeff and the pointy trowels

Jeff,

Listen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Pointy things and striped metal are both very habit forming. I've found no cure, no 12 step plan, nothing. Raw billets will remind you of Dagwood's sandwitches and you will want more and more of them.

Bob Haverstock

I had a productive day in the shop. Made veggie choppers, which are sharp, very sharp, but not pointy:) Then I cleaned gutters. Then as i was getting ready to close the shop, I thought I would spend maybe 5 minutes doing some hand sanding on that darn Damascus trowel. 2 minutes tops and my second finger on the right hand, knuckle closest to the fingernail found the edge the hard way when the paper and block slipped off the trowel. I had not noticed that I had a razor edge there. I noticed quickly when I slipped! OOPS! Take the trowel out of the vise, close the shop, walk down to the house and wash the filthy hand. Stung a bit:) decide a couple of steri-strips will hold it closed, and called my oldest who in near to graduating from Certified Medical assisting school to practice. She did fine. There is some throbbing, but I wrote it off as practice for her clinicals.

And that is why I am trying so hard to resist striped pointy things, I am not very smart or gracefull, and always find the razor edge the hard way! :)

The damascus Trowel should be pretty cool as a show and tell:)

welcome home

Rich:

Glad you made it back from the dark side.

Misc. Non smithin:
Today was a fairly nice day. Since the open burn ban was lifted, I burned brush out back that accumulated this summer. Took down several watering hoses my grandson was useing watering his cows, blew out the burried water pipe going to pasture with air compresor, had to drain water out of hoses that the grandson didn't do, "but should have". And to top things off I watched the Colts get stumped by San Deigo.

Some smithing:
Had a good blacksmithing meeting yesterday, had a demonstrator from Columbus, OH. Honest Bob was supposed to come with the demonstrator, but was unable do to health issues.--------Tuesday a wood worker wants me to harden three tools he made from 01.

Jeff R:
I'm the same way with sharp things. Thats why I don't carry a pocket knife anymore. Expecially a sharp one.------------Working for my dad, we was always useing a knife blade to strip wire and ream the inside of conduit pipe after cuting, so our knife blades was always dull anyway.-grin-
There was times I wished my knife was sharp, couldn't cut butter.-grin-

Who was the demonstrator from Columbus OH? (I was one of the co-founders of the MOB Mid Ohio Blacksmiths and might know them!)

Thomas

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Columbus, OH

Thomas:

The demonstrators first name is Erick. I didn't catch his last name.----Knows honest Bob,Think he said hes only been smithing about 6 years. Is a husky guy, and also mentioned they took one of Nathans hammer making classes.

Thanks; if he's only been in 6 years I was probably gone before he showed up.

Thomas

Columbus Demonstrator

Old Trail- Was Erick a big bruiser, burr haircut and a big dip in his cheek? Cant recall the last name either, he usually is helping out at QS. We did some work together at Loren Ropers shop a few years back. IF it is the same chap.

Prayers needed

Our 16 year old grandaughter was severely beaten at her part-time job a couple of days ago, kicked repeatedly while down, head beaten against a tile wall, stage 2 concussion and much other damage all over. Overnight in hospitol and released, but just an hour ago started vomiting and is on her way to hospitol again. Not a good sign. Prayers, rubs, whatever will be much apreciated. Her name is Leiga Brown.....Thanks to all....Joe

Leiga

Joe, What terrible news. My thoughts are with you and I hope she has a full and rapid recovery. Steve G

Joe Rollins

Prayers and well wishes to your family and grandaughter...

Joe Rollins

Sending prayers your way!
Bev

Joe Rollings - Many rubs from NY.

Prayers

Praying, Joe. This world is SO evil.

Prayers

Joe, prayers from here for Leiga. LXIV,

Prayers

Joe, that is terrible...I hope she will be o.k.

Joe Rollings

Prayers sent.

Joe's Granddaughter.

Keep us posted. Can you share more about the circumstances? Who was the perpetrator?

LEIGA

JOE-- pass the word to her that a bunch of blacksmiths are sending up the knee mail.

What on earth caused such a beating? Where was she working/what town and where were the supervisors?

Sounds kinda like something where a gang member has to whip someone to pass muster into the gang. It has been happening in Hereford and Amarillo.

Getting kicked in the head is dead serious. Throwing up later is scary. Is she close to a good hospital and doctor?

God Bless

Chuck

They released her again.

They say it's post-concussion syndrome or something like that, and could continue for some time. She can't risk even a slight bump to the head or do much of anything for quite a while, but the current emergency seems to be over. She tried a bit of school today and diden't last more than an hour, then started vomiting.

Per request from my daughter, I'd better not get too far into explanations for a few days on a public forum, but they will be forthcoming, in full.

Thank you all so much for your prayers and good wishes. She has great doctors with a good hospitol 1/2 Hour away. She and her parents know about your prayers and send their thanks......Joe

Good info

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prayers columbu demonstrator misc.

Joe, prayers for your grand daughter Leiga.---------

Brian C:

" big bruiser "------------Yes.

Misc.
I hardened the wood workers travisher blades tonight. He already had the blades shaped, beveled, and drilled. Shape remained the same after hardened. Hes tempering them as soon as he gets home . I told him they recomend imediately tempering after hardening.Just don't bang them against each other, etc. and stick in the oven as soon as he gets home.--------------Didn't get much forging in otherwise. Did get a small coopers scraper rouugh out, using some W1 I got at SOFA a few years back. Going to burn in some wood handles for the tangs.----------Saturdays trade item needs to be made.

Leiga

Hi Joe,

Your granddaughter and your family are for sure in our hearts and prayers. Thank God that she is still with us. It sounds like your daughter has a good head on her shoulders.

If you have the urge to reach out and touch someone, please don't do it.

Bob Haverstock

Leiga

Joe....I am so sorry to hear about your grand daughter. Linda's and my thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.

Buck

Joe Rollings

Knee mail up for Leiga. Terrible thing to happen.

Hey Joe...

Sending up some knee mail to the boss for Leiga.

Joe; I've added my mite to the prayers for Leiga. Don't forget the workman's comp issues; she's going to need all the help she can get (and for a long while!

Thomas

Workman's Comp

Thomas has a great point there; injuries received on the job are covered under worker's comp, and this covers medical and lost wages......

Christmas Ornaments

Every year Caryol and I made Christmas ornaments for our extended family. Our parents (1 survivor) and siblings always get them. Siblings children, grand children... etc get them till they have kids, then just the kids get them. This year's ornaments are simple, but we like them. I am about 3/4ths of the way through production of about 90 of them. I posted a couple pictures. The ornaments are actually much shinier bronze than the pictures show.

Dave Hammer

The ornaments look good as ever, Dave. Another decade or three and the tree will have to be steel to support them. (grin)

Rich

Dave Hammer - Very nice and eaiser than the angel right ?hehhe

Had alot of rain this morning thenn turned to wet snow , only about an inch or 2. Glad it didn't turn cold yesterday or we'd have about twenty some inchs of the stuff !!! Rivers n creeks are way up but goin down.

Again....Thanks, folks, and nice ornaments, Dave

As to insurance, they have medical, and it will usually pay and then make inquiries as to who they should bill in the form of other insurance or worker's comp, etc. I will remind them that she may have industrial comp coming for wages lost, but it was just one of her part time jobs, so lost wages won't be a big issue, at least for that job.

Nice ornaments, Dave. Did you clear-seal them against corrosion? If so, with what?....Joe

Joe and Dave's ornaments

Joe. So sorry to hear about Leiga, give her my best wishes for a quick recovery.

Dave those are very nice ornaments, did you use your special forging tool to make them? I hope you only forged the bronze parts :)

Ornaments

Thanks Rich...

John Fee... This year's ornaments are easier to make than a LOT of those we've made in the past. We've had some that took "hours" per ornament to ones we actually bought and just personalized (couple minutes per). If my memory serves me right, there were three years that we didn't make them all from scratch. There was only one year we did something other than send ornaments. That year we decided to send tee shirt decals. Those were not a big hit after 8 or 10 years of homemade ornaments. One of my sisters called and YELLED at me for breaking a tradition.

Joe Rollings.... I'm spraying them with Krylon clear Acrylic (after a wipe down with Gumout (carb cleaner). I don't know how well it will hold up (or stay on), but I want the ornaments to hold their shine...

We've made family ornaments since 1967. The first were just green felt cutouts of chrismas trees with names put on them with glue and glitter. I think there were only about 25 (or so) family members when we started. Fifteen or twenty years (or so), the extended family grew so large we decided to trim the list by making the rule about "if you are a parent, your kids get them, but you don't (except our parents and siblings)". I got some nasty notes that year (actually just pleading for re-instatement).

I wish I could say we had saved one (for a collection) from each year, but we didn't. I'm not sure how those things disappear, but they do. I think a couple of my sisters have a complete set though.

Daryl

I did use the "scar faced" hammer that I made when I put the pattern on the bracelets.

To make these ornaments, I bought 1/8" silicone bronze brazing rods (welding store). Each ornament takes about 3" of the rod. I heated the end of the rod and bent it into one of the shapes. Before each heating, the end of the rod was sanded smooth. After the ornament was shaped and cut off the rod, the other end (top) was sanded smooth also. I flattend the top of the ornament cold and drilled a small hole in it. To get the pattern on both sides, I "scar faced" a small block of steel (1.25 by 2 inches) an inch thick and placed the shaped ornament on it (hot) and hit it once or twice (moving it if needed).

Joe Rollings, even though the wages from your Grand daughters job in which she was injuried seem small, at least in KY the workers comp carrier for the job where the injury occurred has to cover lost wages for all the jobs she holds if she can not work. There is usually a legal limit, which is not huge, but it may make a difference.

Be cautious about having the regular medical cover the injury, since they will probably reject the claim once they find out its a WC. Also, there is no deductable or co-pay (at least in all the States I have worked) for Worker's Comp. Also, in most States there is a thing called a "First report of injury" that the employer must make. If the report is delayed or the injuried delays reporting the WC carrier can drag the payments out or even reject the claim.

I offer the above as a guy who does the employer side of worker's Comp in a Kentucky employeer and have done same in Indiana and Ohio. I know right now your primary interest is getting the youngster healthy. Just don't want the cost of her care to come back and haunt her. Hope she is improving.

Joe Rollings

Workers Comp will usually help an injured worker with rehab or retraining for new job skills if the injuries preclude doing the previous work. I would for sure register the injury ASAP with the employer as a worker comp claim just to keep all options open. We never know, even though we hope and pray for the best, just where injuries will lead us.

Thanks for the education

I'll refer my daughter to these posts so she can act. Hard for us to bend our heads around the concept of this being a "workplace injury" exactly, though it obviously is just that....Joe

Joe Rollings, unfortunatly workplace violence is indeed a workplace injury, and is closing in on the leading cause of workplace fatalities.

Ever wonder about those stat's OSHA publishes a couple of years after the year is over? in 2001, the leading cause of workplace fatalities was workplace violence, and the most dangerous occupation was finacial worker. The 911 deathes and injuries were workplace injuries/fatalities.

Workplace injury

Joe, what kind of workplace?

I have a good reason

for not putting out details yet on the forum. Anybody who is a regular and who wants them can email me (address above) and I'll gladly explain the details and the reason for witholding them. Again, thank you for your prayers and good wishes.

She is improving slowly but still has bad headaches and nausea. Sleeps a lot and has trouble concentrating. Drives her nuts that she can't drive untill she is better, or do much of anything else.

She's going to try watching a sporting event in a few days and see how she bears up with the noise and confusion.

By the way, the comp. forms have been filed....Joe

Hat buckle and bolo

Posted 2 photos of a cowboy hat buckle and bolo tie I made for "Iron In The Hat" for tomorrow's SWABA meeting. Would probably make the bolo hat smaller next time. Note that the hat brim roll on the buckle works well when the belly is a little oversized. Much more comfort when sitting than a large flat buckle. As said on the modeled photo, I'm sorry the model is not better looking. LXIV,

Joe Rollings, glad to hear she is improving. Once she is physically better, she may need some gentle TLC to help with PTSD. Sounds like she had a very traumatic time, and at 16 that is hard to deal with. If she has a very trusted and gentle relative, perhaps a loved Grannie or Grandpa, some "easy" time away from the routine may help ease her mind some. Prayers continue.

Stuff

ALEX-- You did a good job. I like them both. One size down on both might be a little easyier to sell.

JOE glad the Grandaughter is going to be all right.

JEFF -- You been a busy little beaver. Four in college inspires a guy-huh?

I may have 2/3s of a Hamon line on 5160. Got a real neat temper line on it. It almost looks like it has an edge forge welded on it. I will see if one of the girls can foto and hang one in the gallery.

chuck

Nice work Alex....

Tie and buckle

Nice work, Alex!

Data Centers & Colocation

Thanks, nice post. Keep up the good work

Chuck, nothing inspires a guy quite like 4 in college, unless its 5 in college:) My Dad had 5 of us in college at once! BUT, I and a brother were on GI bill. My Dad's rule was if you went to college right out of high school he paid the full bill. If you dropped out or did Military and then went back, he would pay books and tution and help with living expenses if needed. 3 of his sons did ARMY to take a little pity on him:)

I think he was very proud to be able to say, " I put 7 kids and my wife through as much college as they could stomach" One reason he worked 2 or 3 jobs all his life.
For his hard work he got a Attorny, a Registered geologist, a CPA, a Nurse, A comercial fine artist, a GIS specialist and then there is me:)
My mother got degrees in Jurisprudence, and government.

Not bad for a depression era kid, who was drafted, flew in combat with the mighty Eight Airforce and then came back to start sweeping up the broken glass in a storm window factory huh?

He was the smartest man I ever met. When I have a problem I can't seem to solve, I ask myself how he would have attacked it and usually find the solution. Sadly, he passed away at 62 in 1986.
RIP James Donald Reinhardt

hoof rasps

Jeff, I wasn't able to post over at farwestforge so I'm over here.
Every years I sell my used rasps at SOFA or $3 each/quantity discounts. Usually have 50 to sell every year. Will do the same plus shipping if you're interested

Jim Fecteau

I feel for your friend without health insurance. Not having insurance is like triple jepardy. You are responsible for all costs, which are grossly inflated without insurance. The insurance companies pay negatiated rates, which are often as little as 10% of what they are initially billed for service and facilities. Generally, there is also a $ point past which major medical is paid at 100% by the insurance company. It's no wonder that medical problems bankrupt huge numbers of folks that seemingly can't afford insurance.

Be sure your friend knows that much of the medical community will reduce charges if asked to do so. I don't know for sure, but there may even be advocates for the uninsured that would assist with asking (or demanding). I would first ask at social services.

I would recommend anyone that doesn't think they can afford regular insurance to at least look at the cost of insurance that would protect them from catastrophic loss. I would think it would be available with a high deductable.

Insurance

The smartest thing I ever did was let myself be talked into going to work for the VI government and sticking it out long enough to qualify to keep the insurance when I retired. The insurance, if nothing else, is worth the price of admission, believe me. In the past ten years I've had three close calls, and any one of them would have bankrupted me if I'd had to pay the full tab myself. This last one, eleven days in the fancy care unit, will probably come to thirty or forty grand by the time all is said and done. Possibly more if there are any attendant complications or sequelae requiring additional treatment or care. I doubt I could ever pay that off.

Even a high-deductible, catastrophic illness policy would make a huge difference in a case like mine. Something to think about.

Rich

Insurance & Hospital costs

Rich, it might be cheaper down there, but Your recent hospital trip would have cost well over 100,000 in the states, even at the negociated rates.

Health insurance is the best investment I ever made. It did suck paying in the money for 12 yeaers with no claims, but in the last 7 years they have paid out about 4 million for My care, about 150K for (3) surgeries, and most of the rest for chemotherapy.

I now pay about 10K/year in premiums and another 3K/year out of pocket, but as long as I use in network providers, they pay the rest.

Some boating friends had much higher anual deductable & anual out of pocket limits, and did pay less in premiums, but for an on going situation like Mine, I am glad I didn't go with a plan like they have.

The 12 years I lived mosly on My boat I spent less for EVERYTHING each year than I spend on insurance now. Inflation in the medical sector is way out of hand.

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

27%

of just the folk that go to this hospital is a staggering figure. That figure may be more or less depending on where you go but to here that statement,"27% of the folk that come here to be treated have no insurance", is mind blowing when I see what and how our fine gov spends a tun of our money. Someone is making out.........

I have insurance and as hard as I work to have it, I'll need it soon. Who is making money off my back?

Okay now that I've wound myself up I'll go get rid of the snow we got last night, and fire up the forge.
JIM

What shocks my colleagues from Europe and Chile is the percentage of folks who go bankrupt with medical bills who *have* health insurance! (You can look up the numbers)

Ptree; I always try to stock up on rasps at Q-S. This year I saw rasps from $3 to 50 cents apiece---and bought out the 50 cent dealer. Can you work a trade with a local farrier? I run though 15-20 a year doing rasptlesnakes myself.

Thomas

Hoof rasps

If you have a local farrier supply store or a place that sells hoof rasps maybe you can work out a deal with them. Pay them a dollar for each old rasp they take in trade on a new one and the customer gets the dollar off on the new rasp. More business for the store, affordable rasps for you.

hoof rasps

I use to buy them from a flea dealer in Illinois, for 50 cents each. I Would sell them for $1 each at SOFA.----Now, whenever I see them for $1 at flea markets, etc. I'll buy them. Around here you still can get the old thick straight carbon ones for $1 or >50 cents if your lucky.------On the real old rasps I started looking at the makers mark, and keeping different ones for collecting purposes.------------Hoarding is addicting. So is collecting.

Misc. weather:
Its supposed to get to zero degrees tonight. If it warms up to 15 or 20 degrees tomorow, I'm gona forge some. Last satelite meeting in iron in the hat, I got a piece of high tensile cable (7 rounds of 5/16) and started making a cable knife. It forge welds nice, but I'm not a knife maker.

H.F. has a sale going on. The Chicago flux wire welder is $169, usually $249. For someone that doesn't have a mig welder and has one project (working on sheet stock on a trailer) Would this be worth buying or would I be wasting my money and time? Right now I cant justify buying a fluxless wire welder. I might just take the trailer to a friends shop and borrow or have him do the welding.

Dw-Old Trail, I have a Lincon Weld-pak 100 and have run it on co2 gas for about 10 years. I did use it flux core for a while. It is very good on thin sheet. I see the Lincon and miller and Hobarts on the Craig's list pretty regular for $250 or so. I have not heard much good about the welders from HF.

I have pretty much traded for all the hoof rasps from folks I know local. Brian has agreed to send me enough to get me thru till I can harvest more locally.

I have a farrier that I gave a number of sharp rasps to and he will return once he dulls them. I got a box of rasps from my brother and almost half were still very usable. I just did not have the heart to use good tools that a friend needed when I can let him use them first.

Welders

I have a Lincoln Weld-Pak 100 and have used it both flux-core and with CO2 for 16 years. I have had no problem with it. It is great for thin stock. I have heard nothing good about the HF wire-feed welder.

farriers

Farriers are people just like you and me. Make contact with one that is busy and he will keep a steady flow of rasps coming your way.

The trick is to make him/her something that he/she likes and or he/she can give to a good customer. The farriers around here like steak flippers and short handled tongs. You might have to give a buck or two but they are still cheap at that. I gave one farrier a half dozen Crane hoof picks. Everytime I see him he hands me some rasps.

DAVE- The straight double sided rasp with a break in the middle are already collectors. Take the teeth off and they are still almost 3/16th.

chuck

HF stuff collectors

Chuck:

I save all the old thick ones for future uses. What I mean on collectors, is the name stamped on them.

Jeff & John: Thats why I'm asking. I know on other things HF sells (some are ok versus some aren't) like the knock off Beverly shear. I know a couple guys that liked theres and some that didn't like theres. I know that you get what you pay for. -----Although I have a Diacro bender, I bought the bender HF sells, just for the different round dies to use on the Diacro/etc. Even so, I have used the HF bender on some things.--------Its looking NO on the weldor.-grin-

Posted pics

The door pull job is done! Thank god. Pictures are over at farwestforge.

Got 18" of snow yesterday/ last night. Still snowing UG. Time to go deal with that.
JIM

DW Welder

DW, Do you have a buzz box by any chance? You could probably do all the sheet welding you need for your trailer with some thin 6013 rods and save yourself some money. I don't know anybody that has bought one of those flux core only HF welders or similar and been happy with it long term. Steve G

HF welder

Safe your money if this is the only job you think you will use it for, you are better off letting some one else weld it for you. Yes i had a HF flux wire welder and do not use it. use my stick welder all the time.sold the Hf at a flee market at a loss. just to get it out of the shop .

Welding

I have a Lincoln Weldpac 100 and it works great on steel up to 1/4 " thick (might need more than one pass). Harbor freight welders are POS from friends who have tried them. I recommend Lincoln highly.

Also have Lincoln Tombstone 220 V AC/DC welder which works great on 1/4" and up.

Plus Oxy-AC which I use more for cutting than welding, but it is great for brazing....

Have done a fair amount of TIG welding on other folks machines but my need for it is not enough to justify purchase. It is not difficult to do, esp. if you have a background in Oxy Acy welding,......

Might have fair use for plasma cutter, TBC.

Lots of farrier like hoofpicks from rasps, plus rasplesnakes. Can make good trading.

Jim Fecteau

Nice work on the hardware.

Data Centers & Colocation

Thanks, nice post. Keep up the good work

Ellen's welders

Ellen if you have a DC you can TIG anything but aluminum with it. Straight polarity and a dry TIG torch. I use one all the time like that for carbon and stainless - but I'm sure you know that already.

misc.

H.F. Welder info.

Thanks Steve and Keith, guess I'm going to save my money.-----------Wouldn't be so bad buying a mig that I should, but our computer puked recently and we just bought a new one.

Steve G:

I do have a 220 stick welder. But you should have seen the welding job I did doing some of my blow up fish. Had lots of pin holes and lots of air loss.-Thats why a budy of mine TIGed most of my fish.---I do have OA tanks also.

Misc.
Didn't make it to the forge today. Visited my 82 year old cousin in the hospital that has cancer. First things first.

dw - old trail

If You do much welding, I suggest You get a 230 volt MIG that will run .035 solid wire with Argon/CO2 mix. These will weld most of what You need to weld, fast & easy. For really thin stuff, You would want smaller wire.

Keith Frey

How are You doing? This Saturday 12/11/10 is the PABA gallery meeting at Paradise, if You are interested.

Plain ol Bill

Thanks for the TIG idea; hadn't really thought about it. What kind of tig torch tip would I need?

Thx!

Thanks Dave

Dave Boyer

Thanks Dave i will try and go to the meeting. i am doing ok hope you are doing ok also.
Keith

Ellen - TIG

You would use an air cooled torch with a gas valve on the handle. This is scratch start TIG, or TIG the hard way. You have to initiate the arc by actual contact between the tungsten & the work, rather than just step on the pedal and let the HF do it for You. You hav no amperage control while You are welding, so You have to have the settings right before You start. You use pure argon for shielding gas.

Having said all the above, there is a lot of scratch start TIG done in the pipeline & boiler trades, and they pass X ray all the time. I am just spoild by using a shop TIG machine, & am not good at scratch start [I am not really a good welder at all, and I am MUCH WORSE with scratch start].

Keith

I am doing OK, I am on chemo. Hope to see You at the meeting.

Scratch-Start TIG

It can be done. I have had trouble because most DC machines don't have sufficiently stable and precise current control for thin stock. For a while we had a TIG machine that had bells and whistles like HF, and variable pulse controls. That was good. My then partner was an artist with that machine. My present engine-driven DC machine won't do the scratch start on thin stock, which is what I need the TIG for.

Great day

Went out today and did an installation of a chandelier job that was getting right down to the wire for deadline. Spent the full day working and got home feeling great. Big change from two days ago when six hours of errands left me feeling like I'd been mugged. I hope this means I'm finally really on the mend. Whatever, it is a great feeling to actually feel good!

Rich

Rich Waugh

Great news Rich....

Now............ Start planning for your next trip to the mainland to spend some time with friends here. Bring Sally. I have little doubt that your staying home in late September led to a minor depression and weakened your immune system, letting critters get in and cause damage.

Photos of your project?

Canoe chandelier

Hey, I don't design 'em; I just builds 'em... The designer was thrilled with it, so I get paid, so that makes me a metal whore - I'm okay with that! Pics in the gallery for those who can't bear to start their day without something weird.

Rich

pictures

RICH--Where did you put them? We will have a look.

chuck

Having had pneumonia once myself---isn't it *GREAT* when the lungs start working again!

Thomas

Rich Waugh

How are you today?
Hope it's good.

Gallery

Rich:

Your pictures aren't there. At least in Forge Magic Gallery.

TIG machines

The artist blacksmith I worked temporaly for 8 weeks, bought a portable TIG machine to take to the job site. The new residence already had a fire and they was strict on anything causing fires. He needed it to connect his flowing hand rails on the stair case and railings. Fire proof tarp on finished floors all that was needed. If I remember correct the machine was 110 volts and cost around $1000.------

TIG welding

Thx Dave B, John O and dw-old trail. Much appreciated.

Missing pictures, etc.

Yeah, I posted that from here at the shop and then realized the pics are on the laptop at the house - I'll have to do them later. In the meantime, you're really not missing anything too exciting, believe me.

Jim F,

Feeling really good today, considering how hard I worked yesterday. In other words, doing great!

Thomas,

Yea, verily. Being able to breathe and feeling like the blood is actually getting perfused with oxygen is a really good thing - I missed it. Really a creepy sensation to look at an x-ray of your own chest and notice that one lung is completely missing - huh??? Amazing how the thing could just disappear like that when I let the magic smoke out. Scary, too. Amazing too, how well I actually did with just one lung functioning - blood O2 was still 87%.

Went to the doc today and we're going to extend the last antibiotic for another couple of weeks to be damn sure the pneumonia and pseudomonas is all cleared out. I do NOT want this shit coming back! Like the poodle said after making love to the porcupine; "I've had just about all the damn fun I can stand for a while!"

Rich

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

Pics are up

Back at the house and got the pictures of the goofy canoe posted.

Rich - You sure is a clever son of a gun. Very nice.

TIG

Made a living inside boilers for a loooonnnng time using DC welders with a dry tig torch. Yep, scratch start, no remote, just set the amps on the machine and go for it. Ellen you will need a dry torch - talk to your welding distributor or Fleabay it, a flow meter for argon, tungsten (I like 3/32 myself), a collet for the right size tungsten. Again talk to your weld dist. for the torch internals and they will fix ya up.

Rich's Canoe

Beautiful job on the Canoe hardware, Rich!

Gallery

Rich:

Great job on the canoe light.---------------Stupid me couldn't figure out why someone would want a chandelier for a canoe.-Grin-

Rich

Nice Work!

canoe

Thanks for the kind words, guys. Actually it looked better in place than I thought it would when looking at it in the shop. It fits in with the theme of the place, which is all Indonesian-inspired stuff. I'm still surprised that it went up exactly like I planned and everything fit correctly. Even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in a while. :-)

Dave Wells,

I like the idea of a chandelier for a canoe! While I don't have a canoe any longer, maybe I'll make a small chandelier for my little aluminum fishing boat - give it a touch of class, y'know? Just have to figure a place to hang it from... (grin)

Good info

Hello! agfbede interesting agfbede site!

Very cool light, Rich!

Tom C

Rich's Canoe

What kind of lights are in it?

Rich, cool light. Even cooler is that you are getting better.

John, Hope you fell better son

Canoe Lights

John O,

There are 5 low-voltage, high frequency 40-watt halogen mini-canister lights set into the bottom of the canoe. The transformer for the lights is inside the canoe and there are special screens made to cover the canoe to keep bugs out. The screens also deter small stowaways and Somalian pirates. (grin)

Rich

Outdoor Sconce

I bought a handmade sconce about 20 years ago from a steel recycling yard (no longer accessible)in Maryland. It's about 3.5 feet tall. I just installed it last week on a tree near my outdoor smithy. I expect it originally was on a building in Baltimore or Washington DC, probably over a century ago. It is wired for an electric bulb now, but I would bet it was a orginally a gas light. I still need to put glass in the frame (and door), then re-wire it and run an electric line from the outdoor smithy. I'm on the lookout for where to buy one of those old-timee big electric bulbs for it. I posted a picture.

Dave Hammer.Open the Graingers book to lamps, and get happy:) You probably want a "Mogul" base lamp. At VOGT we had a 7 story machine shop with 250 watt mogul base big bulb lamps from the late 20-30's still installed and some in use. The stamped green porclean outer, stark white inner lamp units were everywhere, and I scored about 10. Have them in various places in my shop:)
I have comverted them to 200Watt equiv compact flourscent lamps.

canoes lights misc.

Rich Waugh:

And a bottle of wine to drink under your chandelier on your fishing boat.-grin-
"Nice work"

Misc. This reminds me when I went frog giging with my grandson. We was geting the frogs all night long. Then going back to boat ramp I turned on the lights to see. Thousands of bats swarming all around our boat.

Dave Hammer:
Nice looking light; They do sell a adapter,big base to small, or vise-versa. The big bulb would look better though.-----------------I do have one of those old gas lamps that I was going to restore. Its been up in the garage attic for (lets say at least 25 years) I don't get in a hurry.-grin-

Misc.
Going to IBA satelite meeting tomorrow. Get to see a old friend that moved to Michigan. Hes going to be the demonstrator. Same location IBA's 30 th. celebration was held.

Scratch Start Tig

I have an air cooled tig torch that I use with my Miller Bluestar engine driven welder (the old style welder not the current open frame unit). Just about the only thing I've ever used it for is field welding bronzes and the occasional cast iron field repair. It's still awful handy though when you need it. For shop work I'm lucky enough to have a nice Synchrowave with a water cooled torch so I'm pretty spoiled there. I even have one of the old style slider amperage controls for it that clips onto the torch for when I'm working up on a ladder or laying under something and the foot pedal is too awkward. I like that a lot better than the rotary types. I find that I really have to force myself to occasionally practice with the scratch start just to keep my hand in for when I might need it. I personally think most blacksmith work is better served by a tig and some occasional stick work than by a mig welder but I'm obviously in the minority in that opinion. There are a lot of pretty inexpensive name brand welders for sale these days- check your local craigslist and be surprised. Steve G

Gichners

I talked with David Hutchison today and the registrations are way down for Gichners. If you are planning to go please get your registrations in. I am not doing registration this year but the registration forms are on the website, masametalsmiths.org.
I would hate to see this event go away due to lack of interest.

Lance

Dave

You might have so luck at Rejuvenation in Portland OR, I use to deal with them and they were great. Years back you could get a lot of bulbs as NOS, I doubt if you can now. below is the lighting page
www.rejuvenation.com/location24/typepageReproduction%20Bulbs/templates/ho
useparts_group.html

canoe, dave's light

Very nice canoe, Rich. I always admire those who re-invent the wheel on every job. My living comes from muscle memory and making the same things a thousand times. Until I have made at least 25 of something, my speed is too slow to sell for a reasonable price. My wife tells me that I also have a 1968 view of what is reasonable, and miss a lot of profitable opportunities, and she's prob'ly right. Anyhow, for anyone who has the dual talents of doing original work on every job and getting the required price, congratulations, you have earned them....

Dave, I recall sometime in the distant past, Ralph Spraul (sp?) made glasses for a light similar to yours by rolling hot glass out with a rolling pin. It was convex and had bubbles in it and looked like circa 1887. Should be some pics in the gallery....Joe

ghi medical insurance

Aubrey FAIL.

Re-inventing the Wheel

Joe,

My problem is that I bore really easily and hate doing multiples of anything. Kind of leaves me little choice but to try to keep finding new things to do. I made a chair one time and a guy loved it - he wanted a set of eight. I told him the first chair would be $600, the second one $1000, the third $1400, and so on - he decided he couldn't afford me. (grin) I really hate doing production work. So I keep on re-inventing the wheel...

Every once in a rare while I can actually get into the right mindset to do a production run. Then it becomes a Zen-like experience where I really get into the fine-tuning of every step, perfecting each move, etc. Unfortunately it only happens very rarely. It's pretty cool when it does, but sure not dependable. I envy those who can do it consistently.

If it weren't for designers with oddball notions I'd never be able to make a living at this stuff. They make me crazy, but the do support my habits.

Rich

Rich

Good looking chandelier; also glad you are doing so much better!

Rich, I feel the same way, but 4 in college can overcome those desires, says the guy who has made over 120 trowels in the last 6 months! Same case with making about 50 veggie choppers.
Just down for lunch, after forging 8 choppers, and making a new fitted set of tongs to hold same to ease the job.

PAIN, Pain, pain

I've developed tennis elbow in my tong hand real bad. Strange, I haven't done much forging for the last couple months.

Anyway, hurts real bad, especially at night.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Rudy- I feel for ya buddy. I had it for about 2½ years. The only thing that cures (or mostly cures it) is to do nothing at all with that arm for several weeks , like 5 to 8 weeks.
Then ofcorse you start doing EVERY thing with your good arm and you tear THAT tenon so now you have it in both arms !!! Thats what ha

ppened to me. At first they want you to take a shit load of ibuprofen to make the inflamation go down. It didn't work for me cause I kept working and it couldn't heal. Next they sent me to physical thearapy for many weeks . that didn't work cause I kept working. Even though I tried to not use it I couldn't help to AND keep working. Then I tried Acupuncture (out of my own pocket) cause it was so bad I couldn't even pick up an empty coke can with out much pain. Then on to surgery and 8 weeks off of work. That didn't work either cause I thought that was the cure all and I could go right to it . WRONG.
After all that I decided to do what they told me in the first place and actually NOT use that arm for a spell. It did get better but all I have to do now is use it too much or run any thing that viberates much and it comes back.
I haffta be real cautious .
Hope yours gets better soon.

sundial

I finally got around to making a sundial. It isn't quite the scale of Daryl's but it was a fun project. The base is about 30" tall and the top is 12" diameter. It is really a fabrication and no forging. I have to forge an arrow head and some feathers for the genome but haven't gotten that far. I also need to set the correct angle and paint it after I finish the arrow. I like the metalic look, anyone ever use automotive clear in an outdoor project? I know a guy who says he will do if for me free.

Jack

Tennis Elbow

Rudy,

I had the same issue in my hammer arm. When it got so bad I couldn't work at all I finally went to the therapist. After four weeks of three-times-a-week therapy, steroids, anti-inflammatories and exercises it got much better. I now wear a brace on that arm when I work and no more problems. The particular brace I found that worked is called an "EpiSport" band and it really makes a huge difference.

You're going to need the therapy - don't put it off. It only gets worse if you do. Fnd a decent sports medicine outfit and take the cure. You'll be glad you did. They'll also teach you how to avoid it in the future, particularly if you can show them some videos of someone forging so they can see what they're actually dealing with. My therapist had me raise my anvil about 4" which made a big difference, too - the old rule of thumb about knuckle high is a prescription for tendonitis, she said.

Rich

Elbow--

RUDY-- Lots of people have trouble with shoulders. Sometimes the neck being out will cause the shoulder trouble. Acts like a rotator cuff.

I have an elbow that has bothered me for years. I accidently popped it one time when it was really acting up. It quit hurting right then. So I have been popping it ever since. It still hurts some but if I can get it to pop, it seems to move over enough to release the nerve that is being mashed.

It has been so bad that I could not pick up a cup of coffee. The doc said just keep on popping it. It might ossifi but we can fix that when we need to go in.

I feel for you if you can't get some relief.

chuck

Jack

Your sundial looks good, they are pretty easy to set up. The gnomon needs to be parallel to the earths axis so your latitude and pointing directly south. Hours are 15º apart so easy to layout, but you should allow for your longitude so remember that each degree is 4 minutes so take your regular standard time and move the 12 to the correct location. Where I am is 52ºN and 106ºW but we are on central standard time so it is 1pm that is just about center. If you have someone that does laser etched signs it might be worth doing an equation of time graph something like this.
www.sundials.org/faq/eotgraph.gif
I did one on Aluminum about that size 6" by 5" for $20.00. It really helps people figure out how the work compared to their watch.

Rudy Tennis elbow

Go to your doctor and get a brace I used one like this www.popularbraces.com/servlet/the-713/OTC-Professional-Orthopaedic-BAND-dsh-IT/
Detail
It was a life saver, I didn't wear it a night but it was the only way I could stay working. Now they say the best thing is rest for your arm but if you have to work you have to work, but in either case a good brace not one of those elastic things that cut off circulation. I found the Band-It worked well and it is most likely the same idea as Rich's It is good to get fitted with it if possible as I didn't have it on right the first day and you could tell.

Rich

I like the light, did you make the canoe as well??

location

Our location is 4.5 miles north and 5 miles west of 102.5W and 36.1N.

I did not realize Saskatoon was that much farther West than us. I knew it was a hell of a lot farther North.Grin

chuck

Daryl

Nope, I didn't make the canoe, I just bastardized it to be a light fixture. I believe it was made in India, either as a funerary canoe or as a replica of one for sale to designers who want something weird for a New York loft. (grin) It was pretty well made, though. The main body is hollowed form a single tree trunk and the scroll ends were carefully added on. Someone went to a lot of trouble to cut out all the little brass strips for the trim work, too. Would be a shame to send it flaming down the Ganges...

Rich

Jack Geisler

Nice work on the sundial....

Tennis Elbow

When I had my full time shop, I had a real problem with my elbow. It wouldn't let me sleep at night. A fellow staying in our RV park was wearing copper bracelets on both wrists. I asked him about it, and he said that he had gotten the Idea from John Wayne who wore a copper bracelet in the form of a snake to ease the pain of arthritis. I bought a couple of copper chain bracelets at the local reservation casino gift shop for $5 each and put them on. About 3 or 4 weeks later, all of a sudden one day I noticed that my elbow wasn't bothering anymore. When it turned my wrist green and was tarnishing, I dipped it in Reallemon and rinsed and dried it. I'm not one who believes in miracle cures, but it worked for Me. In retrospect, I may die from some obscure form of cancer brought on by extended exposure to copper salts. Now, years later, I have arthritis in my hands, and I wear a magnetic bracelet. It seems to work fine.

Rudy,

Just stop playing tennis (grin).

Actually if you think about it, there have been blacksmiths for thousands of years, and there must have been elbow pain for thousands of years. But it wasn't until the idle classes started playing tennis that anyone came up with a name for the syndrome. Or (probably) tried to figure out how to cure it.

If the world were a just place, tennis players would get blacksmiths' elbow.

Daryl

We are at about 39.4˚N, 84.5˚W. I haven’t put the time scale on yet but I’m thinking I will set the noon mark 9.5˚ off center rather than having to calculate the difference. If I can get the equation of time chart done for $20 I will probably do that. While trying to learn more about sundials I laid a flat one out on a piece of sheet metal and chiseled the lines. That turned out to be more work than I anticipated. Don’t know if I want to try and deal with curved lines.
I’m thinking about how to deal with daylight savings time. Either mark it for DST only or put on two sets of numbers. I’ve also thought about making the time scale on a strip of brass or copper and having two sets of mounting holes so I can reset the clock.

I bought “Sundials, Their theory and construction” by Albert Waugh. This is a great resource. There are some really cool sundials out there.

My wife has staked her claim on this one so I’m saying it’s her Christmas present. Once I figure it all out I’ll probably make a few to try and sell. It would be just about as easy to make several of these as it would to make one since it is a fab job.

Jack

Jack

Sounds like you have it. There a number of equation of time calculators on the net so you can set it up on the day, I think Christmas day is the next day that sundials match up with our clocks. This one of the calculators.
www.minasi.com/doeot.htm

I have yet to find a way to deal with daylight savings time that I like, fortunately we don't go on daylight savings. The movable strip sounds like a good idea. There seems to be a good market for sundials that work, it usually means that you have to set them up, the Equation of time graph is a great sales tool, and people want things for their yards especially one with a story, and are willing to pay.

My wife also claims everything I make, but she also has an incredible flower garden. I store my sculptures in the front garden, it is amazing how many people get to know your work.

Tennis Elbow, Blacksmiths, and Magnets

It don't work

When I got tennis a good friend mentioned that the magnets really had helped his wife. I figured it wouldn't hurt so went out and got a couple of the strongest rare earth magnets I could find, and taped them to my brace with duct tape. Well I never claimed to be a genius, but do you know how much metal there is in a blacksmith shop? Even working as careful as I could I stuck myself to the welding table, pulled a piece of hot metal out of the forge and had tongs hanging off my elbow.

I wore the brace too and it did no good. After surgery and it was still hurting I bought one of the magnetic braclets and it DID seem to help. Corse this was when I finally decided to not push it , so I can't tell if it was the magnets or rest that really helped. Funny the magnet braclets didn't attract and metal ?
But since my elbow was getting better wearing it I didn't dare take it off and risk going back to were I was I wore it for about 2 years.
I finally did take it off and still seems mostly okay, but I didn't throw it away.hehehhee

Magnets

I've read that the magnetic bracelets are made the same as refrigerator magnets. They have what amounts to a row of narrow bar magnets, set side-by-side with the poles alternating. The refrigerator magnets will stick to a surface, but get even 1/8" away and you're about the same distance from the north pole on one magnet as from the south pole on the next. So the magnetic effect is cancelled out.

This construction is obvious if you stick two refrigerator magnets back-to-back and slide them across each other. Slide in the right direction and they'll move in 1/4" jumps (sticking where the little magnets are aligned north to south and skipping where they're north to north).

Supposedly the bracelets are made the same way so you don't pick up stray bits of metal. Of course, your tendon's probably not within 1/8" of the magnet. But if it stops hurting, it stops hurting.

I have fought blacksmiths elbow off and on for years. I had a moderate case, and when I caught the virus in Mexico that attacked my joints, it also flared up and worsened the blacksmiths elbow as well as my torn rotator cuffs. I wore the elbow strap, one with a little pillow that rode over the spot that the tendon comes out of the elbow, and took the ibuprofin etc. I wore the strap 24-7 for a couple of months and it helped. Then I got to wearing it during the day only, then only when I did demo's with lots of hand hammering. With all the heavy hand hammer work lately, it is flaring somewhat. I am back to wearing the strap when hammering.
I also have the exercises that help, and I do those as warm-up before I start and several times while working to keep loose.

Magnets

I'm thinking that the two 30# pull magnets that I had was a bit of over kill. :)

Blacksmith's Elbow

In my opinion, the best treatment for blacksmith's elbow is a good powerhammer which has control which allows for low power blows. This would also include a fly press and a "dragon". Our bodies are not made to do the kind of hard physical labor required for hand forging unless we start as very young pre-teens.

sundial

Daryl

I tried to think the dial through before I started on it. The top is attached with a clamp so the angle can be changed if I move or sell it to someone in another part of the world. The removeable time scale had this thought in mind as well. I still have to implement that but the more I think about it the more I like it.

The "model" flat dial I made was a good exercise. It was okay for this latitude but with the equation of time chart and the difference in longitude from where eastern time comes from it gets to be too many calculations just to tell time. In November it was off by a half hour or so. The equatorial dial is easiest to set up I think, the hour spaces are always the same for whatever diameter you use. Since this is my first dial I am hoping that the sun shines Christmas so I can check to see if my calculations are correct. My plan is to mark time with one of those silver layout pencils and check time before I make it permanent. Yeah, I'm a chicken, haha.

When I started I had no idea there was so much to think about to make an accurate sundial. It all seems so simple when you don't think about all of the factors involved.

Thanks for the inspiration to get me started with dials. I've kind of gotten the bug to make more.

Jack

Daryl's Magnets

I guess the piece of hot metal your arm magnets pulled from the forge wasn't yet hot enough to harden.

If ferrous bits come flying at you from across the shop, say stray wires from a wire wheel someone else is using, you could not just deflect them (ala Wonder Woman)but capture them. Maybe practice a little before sheding the rest of your safety gear.

More on tennis elbow

Jeff Reinhardt mentioned something in passing that I want to expand upon a bit. The cause of epicondylitis (tennis elbow) is the muscle that articulates the wrist - primarily the one that raises the hand, though the opposite one can also have issues. When the muscle contracts to lift the hand, or to resist force pulling the hand down, it bunches up. This, in turn, causes the tendon at the attachment point on the condyle of the elbow to pull up and away from the condyle, resulting in inflammation. Thus the reasoning behind the arm strap.

The arm strap, usually with some additional padding at the points where the two muscles are, is intended to hold the muscle tightly against the bone and thereby prevent the pulling away of the tendon. If the strap is designed correctly and worn properly it will do just that, greatly relieving the pressure on the tendon. This is not a cure for the problem, just a work-around. The cure is complete rest for long enough to dissipate the inflammation and proper therapy to toughen up the condyle. Once all the rest and therapy is finished continued wearing of the arm brace should prevent a recurrence of the issue.

The foregoing is what my therapist and doctor explained to me about the issue - I'm just passing it along, hopefully accurately. I figure that most of us here can do better with a problem when we understand how it works.

Rich

tennis elbow

Rudy :

"I've developed tennis elbow in my tong hand real bad." Rudy, You must be gripping your tongs real tight, to cause elbow problems on that arm. Loosen up on your grip, use the correct tongs for the stock your holding.

I think something else happened. Go see a physical thearpist like Rich mentioned. The exercises they have you do, does help.----- I know from experience. I messed my shoulder and elbow up, throwing fire wood into my trailer the wrong method while useing the log splitter. Couldn't sleep at night etc. Physical thearpist for 3 weeks,2 hours 2 days a week, and exercises at home several weeks cured me.

Misc.
Had a good day yesterday at IBA meeting. Harold Frost did a good job demonstrating. Later in the day I went outside where a couple forges was going. On a table I spoted some of the leaves, etc. mostly split and separating, that was forged during IBA's 30 celebration. During that week several smiths scattered around the grounds was given WI bar (about 1 inch dia.) to make leaves for the grave marker. Several had trouble with the WI spliting. Kurt Fehrenbach was standing there also, and I asked him if they had trouble working the WI that week. He said No, that they refined it before working the trunk forging, of the tree grave marker.---------- That day the two guys I was working with making leaves had trouble with splitting and separating.

All said and done, this reminds me of the time we had peter Ross demonstrate for us. He mentioned that he works over WI, before forging his project.--------Something that I should have remembered. I've made some axes / hawks useing WI wagon tire I cut up. First heating and cuting to size I need and forging the surfaces flat etc. After doing this I usually don't have any problems.-------"knock on wood"

Weather in mid west:
Rain yesterday, Snow today and zero weather the next few days.

More on tennis elbow

tennis elbow pain can also be a tear in the tendon that you keep agervating so it can't close up and heal. The surgery is to cut the tendon loose and let it retract a bit to close up the tear and then glue it back down soze it can heal, theoreticaly.

snow & cold

BEV--NATHAN--Y'all alright up there? It looked like y'all were going to get a big blowing snow.

Those kind of storms are bad anywhere but when you put severe cold on top of it, it is bad.

Good luck

chuck

Tennis Elbow, Magnets

I agree with Rich go to a Doctor get a brace, the brace helps prevent prevent further damage and rest is the best treatment.

Martin, I meant the magnet story to be tongue in cheek. I didn't wear them long.

Gichner's Memorial Hammerin

Only four weeks to go. This year should be a good one. Phil Heath and Brian Brazeal are great demonstrators. That.... and the catered food is always outstanding. The best part of these hammerins though.... is the community that comes together.... I believe Nathan Robertson will be there selling his hammers again... I hope to see a lot of you there....

Gichner's

Let's all be sure and register really soon if we are going. There has been low registration as Lance said earlier and it would be a shame if there weren't enough attendees pre registered to hold the event. Send them in quick folks.

Nathan is planning on coming east and being there again this year. In fact he will be holding two days of hammer making workshop at my place the next weekend (Jan 15 and 16) for those close enough to attend. I'm in NJ 08556. We still have a few openings but they are filling fast. Anybody who takes the one day workshop goes home with a completed hammer ready to use and the ability to make more. All the materials are included in the $75 fee. I'll have some burners for sale at Gichner's too. Steve G

Tennis elbow

I had "blacksmith's" elbow real bad in the hammer arm some years ago. Tried adjusting the anvil height, several types of brace (a couple worn simultaneously). Finally solved it by using a HEAVIER hammer and a very particular technique I developed just for the elbow I shattered as a child. No further problems.

I developed a sore tong arm elbow some years ago from wanting to finish a project so fast I didn't bother to fit/make a perfect set of tongs. That cleared up.

This one . . . well, I'm not sure. For the last 3 or so months I have done little forging and a bunch of clean up light work rearranging the Sutter's Mill shop. Why the elbow acted up is a mystery. I'll wait, see, be careful, see my faith healer (Why aren't there any wooden legs at Lourdes?), etc.

Sun Dials

I spent a few minutes Googling sun dials a while ago. I remember a comment on one site, something to the effect: "If you set two sun dials of different designs, so the read the same time, they are pointing to true north". I didn't bother to do the math, but if true, I wonder if some kind of saleable novelty item could be made from the idea?

Magnets

Daryl, I picked up on the jest. The mental image of your hijinks with two 30 lb pull magnets on your arm was too amusing for me so I had to comment.

sundials

They need to be pointed to true north to be aligned with the earth's axis and keep the sun angle consistant. There are a lot of things that I never thought about with sundials and time in general. There was never "standard" time until the railroad came along and needed it. You went by whatever the time was at your particular location. To be accurate to standard time there is always math involved with sun clocks.

Apparently many have mottos, some serious, some not. I'm going to mark "Carpe Mañana" on mine.

Jack

qxenyuwv

voefhunf egeuruws
qjerbuqb dkaecuuen yqzefauar gwqesiurx gpbefpuby mtseuouda kocerauuq ivzebvune z

Elbow

A couple of years ago, right after QS, my elbow went south. After a month of home remedies and braces I went to my Dr. and got a shot for tendonitis. No luck. Went to the orthopedic surgeon, got another shot in a slightly different spot. No luck. Did an MRI and discovered the tendon was torn over 50% off the bone.

Surgery involved chiseling a little spot off the end of the humerous, rasping it flat, and sewing said tendon back in place.

Not fun.

Brian C.

Not fun for you, maybe, but the doc got a chance to swap jokes with the gas passer and also paid off his new set of golf clubs, so he probably thought it was plenty of fun. (grin) It's all in the point of view...

Rich

view point

Back during the Vietnam fracas a buddy of mine was in the field hospital. he had been wounded fore and aft. The Viet-Cong did not mind tearing down field hospitals.

Bryce and a buddy of his that would not say 'shit' if he had a mouth full of it were on cots side by side. When artillary shells started coming in they bolted for something to get behind or in. The only thing not flat as a pancake was the latrine ditch.

As they were laying in the ditch full of Ca-Ca.
Bryce said to his buddy "Who would have thought This morning that we would laying in a ditch full of shit by afternoon and just tickled to death to be in it".
His buddy said "Amen! Brother amen"!

chuck

Got to keep things in perspective.

Latrine ditch

Reminds me of the sewer where mother and I were laying during a gunfight in Manila! We were glad to be in it!

Mottos, barbed wire, doctors

Carpe Manana ain't bad....I used to see a sign in my sales manager's office that said " Carpe dinero", which I thought was kinder funny.

Sandpile, I bet you are one of the few who can tell me how to re-roll barbed wire after it's been on the posts about 5 years. My neighbor's shop blew through my fence in two places and I have about 600 feet of fence that's still pretty young, that I'm not usaing any more. I tried 300 feet of it with stays still attached and it swarmed on me, so I buried it with the dozer. There is still 300 feet of it standing and I have the stays out, so I need some good advice about taking it down and rolling it one strand at a time. If I can salvage it, I can make repairs without buying any wire or stays.

On doctors;

My doctor and I had this conflict going where he had a couple of tests he wanted to run, just based on my age. They seemed kind of invasive and personal to me and we could never get through a session without butting heads, but I always prevailed.

After a few years of this, I had a lump on one breast that hurt like hell, so I went in and had him check it. After checking it out with his fingers he told me it was, no doubt, an absess that would go away on it's own. As I was putting my shirt back on, I observed his wobegone look, always present when he failed to win the argument we had just finished for the the umpteenth time, and told him "Well, Doc, at least you can tell your buddies you got to first base".....Which at least made me smile, if not him....Joe

wire rolling

JOE-- For the last thirty years we used a E Z Wire Roller--gas motor and the whole nine yards.

One strand at a time for sure.

I would think it would be easy enough to make something from a 16" wheel and a jacked-up pick-up. Say three lug-bolt hole disc welded to a pipe through the center hole on the 16" wheel.

When I was a kid we hand rolled four strands on ten miles of fence that had been burned out. Not all at once, over a winter and spring.

The trick to that is start a circle with a big enough diameter you can handle it and start rolling. Make sure every little bit you cross over center with the wire as you roll it and have some baleing wire ready to tie off the rolls. You can hand roll it while you are thinking about making something to do it easy.

I like 30" diameter rolls myself. We used welding gloves and brush jackets(heavy duck).

I saw a deal that an old man had made using a jacked up pick-up and a pit-man arm on a bracket & axle & plow disc spools in the stake holes in his truck. He was trying to roll four strands at a time. I could see where his idea would have worked but the wire pulled together as he reeled it in. I don't know if he finally put guides on it or what. He would roll your wire for so much a mile.

EZ roller is the cats meow. Look it up on the 'putor.

chuck

Sounds like something you would rent for a one time use!

Thomas

My lungs

Dear ones:

I just returned from the pulmonologist's office. There IS a serious lung problem, but more tests are needed to show just what type of problem and what can be done about it. Another visit is scheduled next week. Meanwhile more tests. I am favorably impressed with the efficiency of her office and with her.

I will keep you informed as I get more information.

John O. - Many belly rubs goin up for ya.

There IS a serious lung problem,

If so has she put you on oxygen? why not ? If you are on medicare it is a covered item. It is really a good thing except around sparks, any sparks.When you first get it you will be amazed how well you sleep.
I hope she hooks you up soon a week is to long to wait if you have a serious lung problem. B

John Odom

Prayers from our family for yours...

John Odom

You take care, and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

John Odom

Sending healthy hugs and a lot of prayers to you from the Minnesota North Woods!
Bev

John Odom

John, My best wishes for you. I hope your doc can help solve your problem and get you back to your usual activities. Steve G

Shute

Sandpile,

I guess Bryce's buddy would have a hard time with the poem here:

h t t p://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Cameron_Shute

John Odom, prayers my friend.

Bryce

If you knew Bryce and knew how slow he can talk and his dry, dry wit you would really enjoy hearing some of his stories.

One time when he was still a teenager he was drunk enough that while he was beside my pick-up he thought the pickup was turning over. He kept hollering at us to help him hold it up.

We left his truck and got in my truck and started on down the road. All the sudden he hollers "And by-God don't be calling my sister a two-bit whore". This buddy of his says "How come Bryce"? Bryce answers without a grin. "She'll hit you over the head with a sack of quarters". Then he passed out. His sister was not that kind of girl.

We stopped put him in the back and went on to New Mexico

chuck

encouragement Myth Busters

John Odom :

Keep a positve attitude.-----------There is always hope no mater how bad things can get. A musician friend who plays and sings had a lung transplant and was back playing and singing a few weeks later.

Myth Busters:
Anybody watch this the other night. One of the myth testing was Does hitting two hammers together could cause exploding or shattering pieces. A viewer of the show wrote in and was complaining about one of the two myth buster guys always hitting one hammer against another hammer, the viewer saying it was dangerous etc.-------They asked a blacksmith his oppinion and did several tests banging hammers together. Usually busting the handles. They said some things about heating and quenching etc. And they also showed draining some motor oil from a car, heating the hammer head and quenching in the motor oil. Saying that they actually added carbon to the steel. Saying the motor oil had carbon in it from the engine. One assistant did say (shattering)it might be caused from work hardening over time and become brittle.----------All in all they ended up saying the myth was busted.

dw-old trail

My attitude IS positive. Smiths are famous for finding novel solutions and work-arounds. I just want to define the problem first!

Mythbusters

That was one of the worst of Mythbusters often poor shows. They were in error on several counts. Hammers used to be made harder, and would chip. Lawsuits put an end to that. Now they are too soft to shatter!

They were way off on the heat treat.

hammer chips

My brother JIM has a chip in him that is still wandering around it started out in his abdomen. It has been ex-rayed in several different spots. It may have finally gristled up and stopped. He has not said anything about in the last few years. Must be in the body cavity, should have desolved long ago.

There were several kids hurt banging hammers together in the fifties. Have not heard of it lately.

I had a hard shoeing hammer that was made way back there and it chipped. I have no idea where the chips went. Quit using it because of the chip in my brother.

Two brothers were swinging 8 pound sledges together. One of them got a bad chip wound. It was a wonder they did not kill each other.

chuck

John O.

I will rub the cat's belly for You.

Cat Bellies

John,

Got 43 lbs of cat. Belly is rubbed.

Take care

John

We will be thinking of you. Hope you find out what the problem is soon. It's the not knowing that is rough. Glad you like your Dr. That's a huge part of it.

B.

John O

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, and I second the oxygen opinion. If you can sleep, you will heal!

All best, my friend.

Good info

Hello! bfagedf interesting bfagedf site!

Myth Busters

John Odom:

I agree, that episode on hammers was the worst one. Maybe thats because we blacksmiths knowing the subject.----I use to take there show real serious, thinking there correct on everything.----------That was the same about the news on T.V., I always believed the news Paul Harvey put out untill he gave the wrong information on some local news. I know he was giving information they wrote for him and it was the shows mistake. Everybody screws up now and then.

Misc.
the temperature got down to zero last night. Its noon and its about 20 degrees. Guess I'm going to blacksmith in my (unheated shop) Got to make two South Folk latches for a customer that has a log cabin. The only bad thing is I could have done these during warmer weather in sept or Oct. The customer just called me saying he just opened his e-mail I sent him in sept. Hope he is faster paying me than reading his mail.-grin-

Chuck:
I had a metal chip inbeded in my skin near the eye for several years. I asked the doctor about it, he said he could remove it but it wasn't necessary because it would eventually work its way out. He did warn me that if I ever had to get a MRI to tell them about it before hand. It could go right into the eyeball possibily.------------Years ago working as a electrican and then later as a fitter they didn't stress wearing safety glasses. In the outside world 50's and 60's you never saw safety glasses in the construction trades. First time I wore safety glasses was my first job after the military in a aircraft factory in 1966.----------------------I think that a lot of flying chips was caused by hitting undressed chisel heads with a hammer.

Hammer hardness: since we use a lot of old stuff in our craft we need to pay attention to this!

I have one dead soft hammer I like new folks to use---easier to redress the hammer face than the anvil face!

I was wondering if I had seen one of the MB crew driving up to EMRTC this am---black beret, beard,...

John; as this is my birthday I will pass on one of the secrets for a long life---KEEP BREATHING! We're rooting for you!

Thomas still a young pup compared to Sandpile who used to strike for Tubal Cain!

Metal chips

I don't know of any I have now. I used to have a fragment of a .50 M2 round in my left middle finger joint. I could not bend that joint for nearly a year. Imagine what folks thought with the stiff middle finger!

stuff

THOMAS---Happy birthday.
I had some smart aleck stuff written and out of respect for the ladies I deleted it.

Have a gooden

chcuk

Thomas Powers

Happy birthday! Keep on having them- the more you have, the longer you live.

Rich

Link down?

Hey,

Thanks for sharing the link - but unfortunately it seems to be down? Does anybody here at www.forgemagic.com have a mirror or another source?

Thanks,
Daniel

Blacksmith's elbow

Don't know how much it's REALLY helping, but I'm applying cortisone cream to the sore spot. The real low (1%) stuff. My doctor says it won't do any good, 'cause the cortisone won't ever get deep enough to help. However, I keep (I've done this in the past) an open tube of the cream by the sink and rub a dab onto the spot every opportunity - maybe about 20 a day. The rubbing may be what's doing the good, but still, a saturation application SHOULD get down there in at least a tiny, and very broad dose.

Seems to be helping a lot.

John, Sandpile

John, our prayers are with you. Hope it all irons out soon.

Sandpile, thanks for the info. I'm gonna try a strand this weekend. Too busy to build a machine during the Christmas season, although usually I'd rather build a machine than eat fried chicken.

Besides, it'll no dought be the last fence I ever salvage....Joe

Oh, Yeah

And happy birthday, Thomas. Many, many happy re-runs....Joe

Wire winder

See:

h t t p://www.hydraulic-wire-winders.com/

ThomasP, Happy birthday. Do you miss celebrating birthdays with Stonewall Jackson?

Hope you have many more!

Rudy - tennis elbow

I'd have to go along with your doc on the cortisone cream, but if you feel it's helping then keep it up. It probably won't hurt. I did have some significant relief with a cream my therapist gave me called "BioFreeze". It's basically just a mentholated cooling rub similar to BenGay or some such, except it really works.

Rich

Actual blacksmithing

Today, for the first time since I got sprung from the hospital, I did some forging. I've been worried that any such effort might cause something inside me to come unstuck and I don't like living like that. Timid is not my style.

So today I finally fired up the forge and beat out a couple of shutter hooks and about three dozen stainless steel staples for a historic restoration job in town. I was disappointed at how difficult the work seemed, but I did get through it all without falling apart or springing a leak anywhere so it's all good. I may have some muscle tenderness tomorrow or the next day but I can damn sure live with that! For now I'm just purely fatigued. I can tell it's gonna be a good while before I'm up to doing an lumberjacking at the property. Time will tell.

Good to be working again!

Rich

Biofreeze

My folks at work swear by Biofreeze, the therapists and chiropracters use it. I was buying the little foil packets. It is also available in tubes and a nifty roll-on. I was OK with the pricing until in a 6 month period the price went up 400%. I got to checking and the active ingredient is menthol 3.5%. As Rich notes buy the generic. Wal-Mart and others have the same stuff for WAY less, and my folks report it works just the same.
On a side note, The Rock swears by the roll-on version she got as a generic at Wally world. I think the name is "Muscle Rub" The roll on lets you massage the stuff in without waste and keeps it off your hands.

Rich and stuff

Rich great you got to work for a while today. Hope that trend continues buddy.
Thomas Happy B day
...and since we are on the B-day subject- Happy B day Steve Parker (it's tomorrow but hay I'm short by 1 hour.
Snowed again today 3". 0˚ F tonight.
Got a set of 4, shelf brackets out the door this eve. Good and fast, just what the doc ordered on a day like today. It was cold in the shop.
JIM

this and that

Happy birthday to all.

cortisone cream biofreeze:

When I ran track and cross country in HS, we rubbed something on our legs and hips, I think it was called Atom Bomb ? Anyway it was hot and prevented sore muscles.----------My mom had arthritis real real bad. She tried everything for pain and sore muscles. One time she even used horse liniment.

Misc. Blacksmithing
I got to work on the two South Folk latches today. Ruffed out the two handles, beans/punched slots/ tapers/ swedged one of the handles and started curveing in the vise. Oops got a crack near the slot end. Stoped and started the same thing on the other piece, finishing the handle. Tomorrow I'll do another handle from start and be more carefull.

Rich.....glad to hear you are doing better.
Thomas...Happy birthday!

Ваканси

Добрый день, перерыла весь интернет, очень много вакнсий, но реальных вакансий очень мало. Либо уже взяли человенка на работу, либо зарплата не очень. Кто какими сайтами пользуется, подскажите пожалуйста

Steve Parker, Anvil Forger Extraordinaire, Happy Birthday!

Thomas

Q about hexagonal bars

What kind of steel is typical in hexagonal bars? Uncovered a stash from a long ago auction purchase after Dave Hammer left my shop. I think prybars are made of this stuff.

John Larson, Hex bar can be anything from C1008 to 4140 to C1075 to...
In many screw machine shops Hex bar is the feed stock to make anything with a hex. Cold finished to wrench tolerance is very common. We used some in C1008, some in C1029, and lots in monel and 316SS.

Most of the old "Tool Bar" was actualy octagon, not hex.
Spark test a sample and maybe a heat treat test.

Steve Parker, Happy Birthday

Hex bars

I think 1050 is most common. I have seen 4160, too. Just play around heat treating some. I don't know what Jackhammer bits and quarry drill rod are made of, but probably higher Carbon than 1050.

Metals

In my limited experience, but a fair amount of reading and listening to more experienced people, there is no guarantee that anything is made of anything.

It seems that nowadays the designer specifies a spec and the supplier sends whatever he's got that meets that spec. 10xx this week, 41xx or 72xx next week. As long as it does the job.

I used to pull old auto axles assuming they were 1080 (or close). Then I got a few that weren't and the guy running the U Pull It agreed there was no guarantee.

Pouring rain in the People's Republic. Accidents all over the place. Californians really don't know how to drive in inclement weather.

Happy birthday Steve

Birthday Wishes

Happy birthday Steve and Thomas, may you have many more.

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

once again

Happy birthday to both and many more.

chuck

Where is Steve Parker ? Any one hear any thing from him ?
He's God awful ugly but I do like him.hehehee

Steve Parker

John,

It's not that Steve is intrinsically ugly, it's just that there's so damn *much*& of him. Kinda like Big Bird with an attitude (and a regional accent). It's fortunate that he's so good natured, isn't it? :-)

Rich

Thank you for the hex bar info.

Just got back from a couple grandkid days...

And that was fun...

Happy Birthday Steve and Thomas...

Just got back from a couple grandkid days...

And that was fun...

Happy Birthday Steve and Thomas...

Stop at John's Shop

Yesterday, on the way up to Wilmington (Grandson's Christmas Program), I stopped at John Larson's shop. I hadn't been there for a long time. John has moved a few things around and replaced others with new equipment. The most notable was the addition of a HUGE metal horizontal band saw. I think he said he could cut a 14x14 square tube with it. It has an automated pneumatic roller, clamp and feed system. Pretty impressive piece of machinery. He's painting his hammers red now, as per his agreement with his exclusive retail outlet..... Kayne and Son's. Impressive changes..

Huge Bandsaw

In 1987 I had a structural steel business in Phoenix, Az. My partner and I had built up a big fabricating facility and were looking to cut beams more efficiently. We went to Long Beach, California, to a tool show put on by Amada USA. We looked at a band saw that would cut up to a 40 inch beam (1 meter). It was about $40,000 at that time. We almost bought it, but opted for a profile cutter invented by an acquaintenance of ours. It had 3 torches to cut the top and bottom flanges and the web. It had electronic igniters and was programmable as to profiles it would cut. If memory serves me, It was around $25,000. It was great, but plasma cutters were becoming more practical and inexpensive, and the machine lost value rapidly. In retrospect, the bandsaw would have been a better purchase, retaining more value.

The bandsaw will cut 16x16 or 20 flat stock. A HEM 1200LAR. Most importantly, it cuts square! You can't believe how much time outta my life it took to get it to my shop, unloaded, disconnected, to move in the table and then the saw, reconnect, rewire it, and then learn how it works. After Dave left and I finished what I was doing on a hammer build, I started clearing steel from the steel racks to make room for 360 degree access. That's where the question on hex bars originated. I uncovered a stash in the process.

In 2011 Blacksmiths Depot is the exclusive retailer of all Iron Kiss Hammer models. They want red. I have a backlog of gray ones that extends into May and am already interspersing red and gray ones. This marketing change should take Iron Kiss up a notch.

john larson - Congrats on the new arrangement to sell your hammers.
Keep it up and you'll hafta hire some help.

John Larson

Congratulations on the new retail agreement. Should make your life easier. And hopefully more prosperous!

Iron Kiss

John Fe is right, but it is HARD to find good help. One reason the Iron Kiss is so good is John's meticulous attention to details. Few employees do that.

I'd love to be able to have a part time helper. This causes a lotta problems with insurance and state related expenses. Workmans comp, unemployment comp, OSHA shop safety compliance inspections and reinspections, etc. A person serving as a subcontractor essentially cannot be working in the shop. So I use a cnc machinist to do the octagonalization of the tups, a super welder to do a couple items that need to be superb, Brian Russell to supply S7 dies, and as much machinery as I can muster. I explored several options for cutting needed steel square and to length, and settled on the bandsaw gamble. Sure am glad it seems to be what I'd hoped. A neighboring steel fab shop said it can help me if I get in a jam. I talked to a steel supplier about their cutting service, but I've already seen their cut ends on 20-footers and know they can't meet my needs.

I use several steel suppliers for distinct needs. One, for example, cannot deliver channels and angles that come remotely close to accurate whereas another is spot on. The first supplier can supply me with big billets superbly flame cut, and the second cannot, but it can provide high accuracy cutting of things like half inch plate. The third supplier has my bizzinezz for specialty items like tup materials. The less work a supplier induces me to do the better. A one man band can produce pretty good if the supplier system is developed.

Getting to where I am now has been interesting. Going forward will involve suppliers changing. Norgren has changed a number of designs for the worse and their suppliers have gone bankrupt so that some of my supplies have been no/slow delivery until a substitute is found by Norgren.

Sorry about rambling on.

These machines are hard work to build. Everything is machined in some way for specific purposes. Big A-36 hot rolled chunks are far, far from flat and so base plates and anvils are all milled on all six sides.

Question

I have several old pairs of tongs I want to re-build and tune up. What is the proper way to tighten up the sloppy fitting rivets?
Thanks, Buck

Buck

When my tongs get sloppy, I just heat the rivet area and hit the rivet a couple times. If it gets too tight, just heat that whole area to a red and work the handles back and forth...

If the rivet hole has elongated, you may need to take the rivet out and prepare to put in a larger (diameter) one.

Belated Birthday Parker

Happy Belated Birthday Steve, I'm eating a Canoli in your Honor Buddy"emmmmmm!" ..and drinken and rum and coke toast to you later.

tongs

BUCK- In tightening a set of tongs/nippers start out tapping the rivet until you have hit it hard enough to tighten, if you get it too tight use a torch and just heat rivet and right around it working the tongs till they free up. If the tong jaws get hot enough to color you will lose the temper in them.

With an old pair that has been left to rust and are frozen. You can use the torch on the rivet area , taking them to a dull red and try them if not enough take them up another color. Usually this will free them enough to lubricate and work the rust out. It will soften the reins right at the rivet.

Take them to a red and dunk them in oil.

chuck

tongs

Thanks Dave and Sandpile. I will work on them today and let you know how I do.
Buck.

misc.

Misc.
Wheres everybody at?------Jeff R. is probably shoveling his way out. We just got 3 inches of snow tonight, and freezeing rain coming. Glad I'm retired and don't have to drive anywhere in the morning.

smithing:
Got the cabin latches done.----Just a few days till Christmas, guess Santa has to start forging some gifts for the family.-grin- After that I got a native american that wants me to make him a knife. A interesting guy, hes a Osage Indian and fought in Nam. His father even though being Osage, was a member of the Navajo windtalkers in WW II.

DW- Oldtrail, can't shovel solid ice:( Had 3" of snow then freezing rain that melted that solid. Oddly the tree got very little so none lost in my area. Drive is terrible, melts in the day on top and then refreezes so its as smooth as if a zamboni went over it. So far everyone in my family except me has fallen at least once. We are hiking the 1700' or so up to the cleared street, except for one fool who has been able to drive in and out so far:) And that is why I have as yet not fallen:)

Dave Wells

We haven't had much snow or ice.... YET.. Just a couple inches of snow this past Thursday. We have had COLD weather though, and wind. There has been more snow south of here (toward Richmond and west of there). The weathermen are forecasting snow to come Friday night and all Christmas day. Although they are not predicting a major storm, nobody is venturing a guess as to how many inches yet.

October and November brought great weather here. December, not so much. I think I heard on the news that there were only two days that weren't below average. Most have been in the 20's, which isn't that cold by midwestern standards, but it is here. Couple that with the wind and we prett consistantly had wind chill temps in the teens and single digits.

I have projects started and lined up to finish, but little moxie to work on them lately.

Wha...?! Ooops...wrong door.

(Backs out...sloooowly....)

I spent a few minutes trying a different (for me) veining technique on a leaf this afternoon. I posted a couple pictures of the leaf (one with the veining tool I made). The leaf was made starting with 3/4 square on my anvil, then domed a little into a wood swage block.

Sahara Palms Apartments Las Vegas : Staff Protected RAPIST !

Maria who is the Rental Agent at Sahara Palms Apts. Protected Rapist Danielle Grant, for some unknow reason.Thier relationship is unknow at this time. She was over heard laughing at how The Victim was tormented and RAPED she thought it was funny how Grant talked about victim.Ms Grant who resides at the apts. Danielle Grant 23, of Las Vegas is a RAPIST, she and another man used a date rape drug on Victim at Sahara Palms Apartments 2900 El Camino ave. apt 170, Danielle L Grant sodomized the victim with a plunger. She is lite skinned 4'6 to 4'7 and she drives a Black Ford Focus, She works as an dental assistant during day. STOP her please. Victim is too ashamed to tell Police. Memory just now coming back. Danielle L Grant MUST BE STOPED. She is a drug addict and dealer ( Lortab and Meth,weed ) sometimes works as a Vegas Escort/Prostitute when she needs money. If you have information on her criminal activities Please contact the Las Vegas Police Dept.

Gallery

Dave Hammer,

I like that effect n the veining for larger leaves like that - should be very prominent at a distance and cast good shadows - nice effect!

Dave Wells,

Just saw the trunk work - nice job!

Rich

Stuff in the gallery

Nice leaves and trunk fellows!

Gallery

AS always some nice work there. It looks like you've been having fun with that impression technique Dave Hammer; the leaves look good with nice clean strikes.

Dave Wells, Is that by any chance an L&JG Stickley settee you have the trunk in front of? In any case a nice bevel detail on it. Your work on the latches and the trunk looks good too. You must have been huddling over your coal fire to stay warm enough to do such nice work in the last few days.

Lots of work to catch up on in the last couple of weeks but very little forging going on right now. I did do a little bit this morning on a lamp hanging bracket before moving on to other things. I've been thinking Christmas is coming on way too soon this year- I'm completely unprepared so far. Steve G

Windtalkers

dw-old trail
My wife was commandant of the Marine Corps League in Payson, Az. The Marine Corps birthday celebration was an annual big production. One year we had Joe Foss as guest speaker. The next year we had Thomas Begay, a Navajo Code Talker. They were kept a top secret until the 70's because the military thought they might be needed in Vietnam.
Thomas and his wife sat at the head table with us and after all was said and done, I was talking to his wife. I said that I was surprised to see her hair had a slightly red tint to it. She took me aside and said with a twinkle in her eye,"Don't tell anyone, but my grandfather was a German Jew!" Cracked me up!!!

this and that

Jeff Reinhardt "
We got the 3 inches, the ice missed us. It did mist this morning but the temperature was above freezeing. luckly

Rich:
I didn't make the trunk. We bought it at an antique store, upstairs where all the furniture and junk was. It was a basket case with tiny hinges/ half off, nail holes all over, etc and make do hasps for locking with a lock.----A little work and some smithing made the Mrs. happy.

Steve:
Yes on the Stickley. Something else the wife bought at a antique mall, for a fair price. The Mrs. is as thrifty as I.-grin-

Loren T:
Great story about the guests.------I remember in 1962-63 while in Texas, we had a indian in our barracks that liked to drink. he got beat up several times walking (wabbling) back to the barracks at night. (civil rights times) If you went out at night you had a buddy with you.-----------------Another story, When I was in grade school in the mid 50's, my mother and I rode a train from IN to CA to visit my brother, who was stationed at 29 Palms, CA. I remember seeing GI's rideing around on base in a convertable with KKK outfits on.

Dave Hammer:
Nice job on the leaves. A different approach with a nice effect.----------I think we are going to get the same weather for Christmas weekend. The snow on the ground right now, is perfect for making snow men.

Misc. smithing:
Today the temperature got above freezeing. I brought in some firewood then finished attaching the handle to the shovel that I already had forged. Its a trade item for next month. Started making a present or two for my two kids.

joint pain linament

Good old fashion ABSORNINE JR. is the stuff. Just make sure you dont get any on your "joint" if you know what I mean and if you don't you will.

. It has an antiseptic to help prevent infection.
Ingredients

The active ingredient in Absorbine Jr.® liniment is 1.27% natural menthol. Other ingredients include calendula extract, echinacea extract, absinthium oil, acetone, chloroxylenol, iodine, wormwood extract, potassium iodide, thymol, water and coloring agents FD&C blue number 1 and yellow number 6.

Read all about wXwXw.livestrong.com/article/21959-absorbine-jr/

The tong tune up is coming along very good. Nice to have tongs that work!
Thanks again for the help.
Great stuff in the gallery. B.

Nice work in the Gallery

Been out with a bad tiff neck. It's getting better day by day. Makes for crappy sleeping. I'm grumpy.
JIM

Fecteau

They don't call you the Angry Local for nothing.

Futbolkiua

ðåøèë ïîìî÷ü è ðàçîñëàë ïîñò â ñîö. çàêëàäêè. íàäåþñü ïîäíèìåòñÿ ïîïóëÿðíîñòü.

Rich, I don't call Jim Angry Local. I call him friend. Besides he is too far away to be local:)

Rich knows

Jeff
Rich knows things about me that only folk here in town "really" get to know. (GRIN)
I'm not known for mincing my words. I say what I mean and do what I say and that somehow has gotten me a label here in town. OH WELL, I like it, keeps slippery folk far away.
I hold my head hi in this town, by God, and no one can vilify me..... EVER!

How was that Rich (-:

My neck got better as the day progressed, I started in on some door pulls that need to get done ASAP. I hope to have them done by tomorrow. THEN I GOT to play Santa!
JIM

JIM

Jim Fecteau, I never would have suspected a mild mannered fellow such as yourself would ever say something that might offend:)
Still a friend, still not local, so can't be an angry local to me:)

Well maybe at Quad State, then we are.. wait, very few of us there are locals, then we might be "Angry out of towners" ?

When someone is a no good, low down egg sucking cur, it is perfectly acceptable to identify them as such in my little mind, and I may have done just that on an occasion or two:)

Now Rich is such a gentle, easy going never say a harsh word fellow... wait, I think he may not say anything, just shoot them:)

Yep

It's those silent types ya gotta watch out for.

They've pushed our snow out till Sunday, still without confidence as to how much will come. Flurries to feet are being mentioned.

Mild-mannered

Yessir, that would be me! Heck, I haven't shot anybody at all in the last few years. I am obviously mellowing with age. Why, these days it is only on rare occasions that I even carry a gun. I just don't feel the need any more - my strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure. Yeah, that's it. (grin)

So how come, you ask, some little organism too small to even see without a powerful microscope could lay me low like that? Easy. There were billions of them boss, I couldn't fight 'em all. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Rich

This one is for Sandpile

I was looking at the weather yesterday at Alert, Nunavut, Canada, I believe this is the farthest north settlement in the world about 500 miles from the North Pole. The temp there is 28ºF, yesterdays high for them was 34ºF, and your temp as 8am was 33ºF, so if you are in the coffee shop this morning you can tell them Dalhart, TX is about as cold as the North pole.:)
www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?nu-22&unit=i

Rich

Glad to see you continue to get better and have your sense of humor.

I thought an "Angry Local" was when you annoyed the ER nurse when you came in to get stitches and she goes out and strops the needle on the curb a few times before giving it to you!

Things Blacksmith's say a lot:

"WHAT?"

"Didn't feel that hot to me!"

"Yes getting something custom designed and hand built of high quality materials by a talented craftsman does cost more than buying some cheap item made by slave labour in a 3rd world country somewhere."

Merry Christmas and an Anvilly New Year to ALL! (Save Rich; If he were to get another Nimba like that last one I'd have to start coaching butterflies to start hurricanes and aim them that way!---Him I will just wish Health and Happiness!)

Thomas

weath & stuff

DARYL--It is in the high 30s right now. It is about 75 feet to the shop door and that is far enough for me to figure out where my underwear stops. Wind is kicking right along.

Plenty of wood and no forging so will be in the warm knife shop. The girls(6)requested Roo hide braided bracelets for XMAS so I will not get out of the warm today or tomorrow.GRIN

Felix Navidad

chuck

This and that

Well we wound up with 8" on top of the 4" we already had. SSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOO I had to snow blow all morning 9-1 and then I WAS OFF TO TAKE CHARLOTTE SKIING.
WE just got back
No Santa today. I got to get into the shop tomorrow or I'm a cooked goose.
JIM

Jeff

When I'm around like minded people I'm real laid back, BUT there are limits. Lots of real silly stuff being done here in town with Zoning and such. Folk move in change stuff then move out when they can't take it anymore....... leave us with the crap.
JIM

Jim, I know, just teasing a little. I have seen my rural area gentrified by UPS pilots that make $350K a year. Our elementary went from pickup trucks in the line to get the kids to huge SUV's driven by little blond barbee trophy wives:)
Benefit is there are now more choices in the enlarged grocery. Drawback, I don't pick the kids anymore so I don't get to look at the little blond... no wait thats not it. Gentrification thats it.

I sell lots more high end:)

Boy wish our bus drivers were like that. (-:
With Mass, Conn, NY, and all the cities that are in those states we get some hairball ideas. Now the state is getting filled with the fools, and they are trying to cram their agendas down our throats. Just leave me be. I'll be fine and I'll take care of folk in my community to. Getting so I don't have time to do anything but busting butt just to make ends meet.
It's happening every where I guess. Bummer
JIM

Right on Jeff. Those blonde plastics turn me off. I like them with big mountains, a plump rump, pot belly and furry!

Christmas

I hope everybody who celebrates it has a wonderful Christmas this year. While you are enjoying it keep a thought or two for those who are suffering from health or economic issues in these times that are so tough for some. Help someone if you can please.

This is a great friendly place where a lot of us with different backgrounds, outlooks, and views can come together and talk about shared interests. I'm glad we have it and hope it continues. Thanks to Sparky (and to anyone who may be helping him) for keeping it going.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays all.

Steve G

Merry Christmas Everyone

MIKE

Christmas

Merry Christmas to all,
May your day be filled with love and joy with your loved ones.

I posted a Lanny Claus picture in the gallery.

Lance aka Lanny Claus

Merry Christmas!

We are in the middle of celebrating our Christmas. My youngest son is here with his two year old daughter. They will leave tomorrow. Tonight we continued our tradition of placing an ice candle (made by Nathan) on my husband's grave. Aria was fascinated with this tradition and as we left said "Good bye Grandpa! See you tomorrow!"

I hope all of you have a very joyous and memorable Christmas season!
Bev

Merry Christmas

You all have a good one.

Holidays misc.

Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays And to go along with what Steve said----Think of those less fortunate.

Lance:
I forgot what you looked like. gallery -grin-

misc. smithing

My customer picked up his Suffolk Latches today. Then I made some last day Christmas presents. not haveing a heated shop, I clean them up then apply finish in my basement, then take them upstairs and place by wood stove.-----more snow on the way. Walked the dog this morning. she saw a rabbit and off she went.

Merry Christmas

Hi Folks,

Merry Christmas to all of you from Lilly and I. May you day be pleasant, the food good, and please take time to give thanks.

Bob

Merry Christmas to us each and every one!

Snow on the way, should be another 4" or so.

Merry Christmas to all!

Best wishes for a happy holiday season and a prosperous New Year as well. Good health to all!

Friends are the greatest asset any man can have.

Rich

Merry Christmas Everyone!

May all of your have Health, Wealth... and all the good stuff in the New Year.

Merry Christmas!

Hope all have a great Christmas.

Wed. storm gave us an inch of much needed rain. Glad it wasn't snow!

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas from The Blonde and I. Hope to see everyone at QS again next year.

Merry Christmas to all from me-n-Diana-n-Pogi-n-Jake.

Only 14 days till Gichners !!!!!

Gichner's

John,

Give my regards and regrets to Dave and Lance and everyone at Gichner's, will you? What with the lot work after the health issue and all I just can't afford the trip this year, unfortunately. I'll really miss seeing everyone and the great demos, too. You all have a great time and take lots of pictures to post.

Maybe I'll be able to make Spring Fling.

Rich

Rich - Will do , hope you can make the spring fling , thats only 111 days to go.hehehe

Merry Christmas

Louise & I wish all of you a Merry Christmas & best wishes for health & prosperity in the coming year.

Tom C

May your holidays be super dandy with candy!

Merry Christmas to all

☺☺☺☺

This is a bit of Christmas eve tradition

Alan Maitland's reading of The Shepherd, by Frederick Forsyth.
www.cbc.ca/asithappens/
You will have to hit the play button, I remember well the first reading of The Shepherd and have hardly missed it over the years.
I hope you enjoy it.

Merry Christmas to all from a fat guy with a white

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas to all from a fat guy with a white beard... not THE fat guy with a wite beard, just A fat guy with a white beard.

Greetings

I wish you and all yours a Merry Christmas.

Hope everybody gets to where they want and keeps the shiney side up.

God Bless

Chuck

Where can I after devotee loans without a cosigner?

I'm a college grind and I had to be patient out a semester because I didn't prepare anymore money.
My mom doesn't obtain the best credit so it's all but impossible to come by her to cosign a loan also in behalf of me.
Where could I assail go off to get a advance that I can get on my own

Merry Christmas!

If any one wants to read about my health problems , there are posts on farwestforge.com. I feel blessed with the progress.

Linda and I wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a great New Year.
Buck

John O

More like reading about progress than problems John. Keep up that great attitude (wear a mask in cold weather) and you'll be increasing your energy exponentially.

Hello All and sundry!

I interested in any method to be extremely cold hard cash on the internet. I have on the agenda c trick tried many things and bear not been successful but I am not going to give up. It is straight away occasionally my hobby! I am amazed at the vim and dynamics of the internet marketing community.

I'm Ready for SPRING

Or at least 50 degrees.....

Merry Christmas Everyone

Snow's on the way (they tell me)

Exactly what is without a doubt this a large percentage of have faith in valuable insurance broker?

How much can an agency legally cost to let an insurance policy holder out of his auto insurance?
Just how much does your company cost when a person needs to stop and how much pressure can you use to hold them?
What are some ideas or something like that we can say if our consumer has several months still left on his active motor vehicle policy? Certainly, many of us are not going to hold back until his renewal comes due each and every time.

Merry Christmas

It was a beautiful day here, it got up to 0ºC/32ºF. I took the dog out for a long walk, the city was pretty quite, hardly a car on the road. Santa was good.

Hello The whole world!

I interested in any method to make extremely boodle on the internet. I include tried innumerable things and bear not been top but I am not thriving to transfer up. It is now my avocation! I am amazed at the determination and dynamics of the internet marketing community.

Happy Boxing Day

For our Canadian Friends!

Good times and weather

We had a really good day and most got maybe not what they wanted but what they needed. The older the Grandkids get the more expensive their needs.

We were short some of our folks today but hopefully we will have another XMAS next Friday or Saturday.

KAYLA one of our twin grandaughters is stil in the UNM hospital in Albuq. NM. She has had a time of it this past week with Pancreaitis and now they are leaning towards a stomach ulcer, caused by the bile in an empty stomach. They say the stomach bile will eat a razor blade.
There are great medical people at the UNM hospital, hopefully she will start mending.

It was not real cold today. The wind blew and towards sundown it started getting colder. It is 16 right now and at 6:00 news that were calling for 18 being the low. Maybe it will warm up during the night. The wind may shift around.

We thank the Lord for what we have and the health of our family and our neighbors and friends.

Chuck

Online bingo gaming inasmuch as people who enthusiasm of the online bingo

Happy Boxing day Canooks :-)

Got maybe 2" of snow here with some blowing, much better than many of our neighbors..

Hope every one had a happy and safe Xmas.

Boxing Day

Thanks for the Happy Boxing day good wishes. I'm not sure if you know that most of the original idea of giving money and other gifts to the needy or those in service is pretty much now nonexistent. Instead it is more like Black Friday, everyone is out shopping for the best deals of the year.

I asked my family this year to not spend money on me for Christmas. Instead buy a gift for someone that need it. It is not that I'm some saint it is just that if I want something I go buy it. So this year some family in Africa got some rabbits, a school got books, and a medical Clinic got stocked, The food bank locally got some turkeys. You know it made me feel pretty good.

Boxing day/ Christmas

We didn't spend on each other this year. Most of our gifts, except for the very little ones were made in the shop.

I had never heard of Boxing Day until I moved to Cnandas (Alberta) in 1964. There was so much to learn!

Daryl - That was a good idea instead of gifts . I'm sure it made many folks happy.

Daryl

You make me smile :-)

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

I had a very quiet Christmas; though my wife found my birthday present so I got that too, only 10 day late. May be a new record for closeness!

Still helping my parents move, repairing things and hanging stuff on walls.

It's been quite chilly here, I had to wear a light jacket to walk the dogs---un-zipped of course! I finished the eastern wall of the 20x30' shop extension Friday before church---at the service the vicar dropped his planned sermon to tell us about a parishioner who had had a bike accident a couple of days ago and had been in a coma till just a few hours before the service. He had come out of it while the vicar was there with his wife. Good enough Christmas miracle for us!

Thomas, trying to walk off the stuffing I'm being stuffed with!

Happy B day Rich Waugh!!

Hope your new lease on life has you out fishing tomorrow.
JIM

Birthday

Well, it's not really until tomorrow, but thanks! No fishing though, the water is a bit rough right now and I need to get the boat in better shape. Might get that accomplished in a week or so when I've cleared out a bit more work in the shop.

I'll be trotting down to apply for my Social Security this week, too. I need the money.

Rich

Happy (a little early) birthday Rich... You should be able to do all your Social Security paperwork online.

SNOW...Looks like we (right where I live) were spared the snow. At least we only got (or will get) just a little. Tis supposed to windy (it is) and cold (it is) though. Lots of other folks will have it a lot worse.

Happy Birthday Rich! And the wish of many more.

We dodged most of the storm as well. The snow we did get has mostly melted with the roads pretty good. My drive is still an ice rink, but they predict highs in the 40s and 50s later this week so the gravel will be mush:) I may find the right conditions to grade the bigger potholes out, especially if we can find the UPS box truck that got lot in the big hole:)

birthdays SS misc.

Happy birthday Rich. Hope you don't expect much money from SS. Every bit helps though. -grin-
Make sure that boat is sea worthy (we don't want to loose you).

------------------ My wife started Medicare in Nov. which helps some on medical bills.

Misc.
Spent the day helping the Mrs. cleaning the house. My two kids and mother-in-law and dog, spent three days, her brother and sisters, there dogs, was here yesterday. Things are quite today, thank goodness.

Okay guys n gals - I got a small fire place screen to do, 12" X 20".
Iv'e never done one before so I need some advice.
I looked on McMaster Carr (Jim's favorite joint:-) and they got alot to chose from. Henry has bought 8X8 mesh .032 wire black iron and was pleased with it. But the lady I'm doing this for said she's had 2 burn thru so far and asked about stainles steel screen.
They offer 316 ss and 304 ss. The 316 is only about $6 more but is it worth it ? Is 316 better against heat than 304 ? Or is it just better against chemicals and wouldn't be better for a fire screen ?

Thankx in advance for your help.

Fe's Fireplace

JOhn,

I'd go with the 316SS for a screen that's exposed to much heat. It will have much less tendency to oxidize and stay looking good longer.

Rich

fire place screen

John
No since in giving McMaster Carr any money. I'll send some your way I got 200 ft of it. 4' roles.
You got my email, send me what you want so I will remember what we are doing and I'll get er done.

fire place screen

Mine is .030 thick strands.. Pretty beefy. If you want SS here is an option
w w w.mcnichols.com/products/wire-mesh/square-opening-2/square-weave/

Work

I worked at the lab this morning. Tired, but not clear exhausted. First day at work since early November. Not much since mid October. This is a good start. The breathing treatments seem to be working.

The medication had a copay of about $80 this first month. Today I found out that after this first month it will be covered IN FULL by Medicare!

John Odom.... Glad to hear you are on the mend.

Belated Christmas greetings

made an Arizona trip, so just catching up. Best wishes for the holidays to all of you, and God bless...Joe and Janet

As it turns out , I don't have to make a fire screen. What she wanted was a screen to lay on her fire grate so only small ash's fell thru ...
No wonder the other screens burned thru.
Her grate has burned/melted warped so she can't get her shovel under it.
I suggested pre made cast iron grate so it would last longer but she wants me to build her one outta round stock with 1/8 to 1/4" slots between em.
She wants it 2" high so her shovel will fit.
I have lots of 2" heavy angle iron for the legs on the ends and one in the middle for support. Will use 5/8" rod for the top.
I told her it will most likely burn up in a few years, she said that'd be okay cause she'd just hire me to build another one :-)
Shes a cool old lady , 80 years old. What she had her son by law buy her for Xmas was a new Stiel chain saw to cut up her fire wood.
Said the kids don't like me to go in the woods and fall the trees by myself any more :-( so she buys it in log lenght and saws it up from there....
She also shot a nice doe this past deer season.

Sorry - forgot to thank Rich and Jim for your help and suggestions.

fire grates

My auto parts guy heats with wood in a Buck stove and burns up the log dogs about yearly. He lets the ash build up too high and then the coals burn up the dogs. I made him a new set from 1" square and repaired two sets he had, smae size in the repairs. I suspect he will be ready to have me repair some for him soon. I usually trade him credit for my parts account and both of us are happy.
Rebuilt a pretty burn't up grate about a month ago. Used 3/4" round in the grate bars and 4" I beam in the supports. Same issue too much ash and the coals overheat the grate.

Job security:)

I used to make grates for a bbq joint here in town. They went in a gas grill that had some lava rocks on them. I made several out of mild steel that would last half a year until the sauce would eat them up. After that I made some from stainless steel that, as far as I know are still in service.

Oh, Happy birthday, Rich!

Tom c

little ole ladys grates in use

John Fee:

That is some lady. Shooting a deer and cuting logs,at that age. (Or any age.-Grin-

Misc.
Fire grates log dogs don't last long when there used heavly and often in a wood fire.---- For occasional use in a fire place they last longer.------I've seen a lot of old fire dogs burnt or sagging, that was made from 3/4 and 1 inch stock. At a local historical museum, the smith said they replace fire dogs on a regular basis.

I've made fire dogs from 3/4 stock, based on time period (Colonial) class taken.---Made a fire grate for a customers large fire place, based on probable ocasional use with no roaring fires. I used 1 inch square.

I heat strictly by wood, useing a air tight stove, brick lined. I can't imagine how long any mild steel would last inside this type of fire. Even without a flame, the hot coals are real hot and would do a major job in no time to the steel.

What is no-fault insurance?

What amount can a company legally cost to let coverage holder out of his insurance?
What amount does your agency charge when a person would like to terminate and how much pressure do you use to continue them?
What are some tips or something we can say if our consumer has several months still left on his current motor vehicle policy? Surely, all of us are not going to hold back until his renewal comes due every time.

A2

Do any of you use A2 for anything? If so, what and how do YOU heat treat it?

A-2

Dave,

Yep, I use it for punches, drifts, chisels and other tooling, as ell as for some small dies. Pretty nice stuff, fairly hot hard and works well for me. I jut heat to critical (non-magnetic plus a hair) and air cool in still air. For chunks over an inch in cross section I may put it in a draft to cool.

Ворота К

Неплохой пост, но много лишнего.

fire grates & A2

JOHN--I come up with some big stainless(316?)Hooks used to swing big steers in the packing house. I found some stainless cat-walk in the same junk pile.

You might look in the scrap piles behind a packing house. I have a buddy that knows the scrap dealer real well.

A2 is a good tool steel makes great knives. I draw mine at about 400 degrees.

chuck

The info on A2 helped me, too. Thanks.

A2

Thanks for the info....

A2

From the book:
Harden from 1725f-1775f, quench in air.

We used a gentle air flow at the auto frame plant, particularly for larger parts.

We tempered at 400f for most parts, should give 60-62 RC

For more tougness but less werar resistance, temper at 700f, should give 57-59 RC
We used this higher temper temperature for part locators, strike blocks etc. but never for cutting or forming parts where We needed the wear resistance.

Double fuller w/o fuller

If you want to do a double sided fuller (like the tang on a knife blade) and you don't have a spring fuller, guillotine, etc. is there a way w hammer, anvil, and minor common stuff to do the job?

Had a doozy of a fun yelling argument w a liberal last night. FINALLY got him to admit he would pay for all his great and noble ideas by raising taxes on absolutely everything. He wouldn't explain what he would do if that didn't work.

Rain in People's Republic

Scrap wood

Just by chance passed by a local scrap wood (pallets) dealer.

Reminded me: Someone years ago claimed if you knew wood, you could look at ruined pallets and pull out an occasional piece of genuinely good wood.

Comments?

Good info

Hello! bgbedab interesting bgbedab site!

Pallets

I have a couple pieces of furniture I built that have all the edging and trim done in some beautiful mahogany that was taken from an old pallet, and I have a few other pieces that are made entirely form pallet wood - rosewood, mahogany, idunnowhatitisbutitspretty, etc.

The trick is to be in an area where pallets come in from South America or Africa, it seems. Oh, you can find some oak and hickory in US pallets, bu tthe exotics come from down south of us.

Rich

I had a tool maker friend that made a wood tool box with drawers, a demensional copy of the popular Kennedy box all fro oak pallet wood. It was very nicely done.

fullering the simpliest way.

Rudy:

I took a class on making the box joint. The class taught by head smith at a local historical living history museum. He believed in smithing with minimal tooling. We fullered the male joint by holding two pieces of round stock in one hand (one on each side of the piece) and hiting the top round piece with the hammer.--------Yes! You can easily get pinched fingers. Yes! it hurts. But you soon learn to do it right.----- A good smith learns how to do different things different ways. When out from your normal safe haven (not haveing the tools on hand etc. You should be able to make do with whats on hand. Melvin Litton was the teacher, and I learned a lot from his teachings methods. He was constantly teaching different methods of doing the same thing, that got you thinking for yourself.----------Same method can be used making a tenon. You can also make a tenon useing the anvil edge and hammer, or edge of power hammer dies, treadle hammer flat dies, etc. Jerry Darnell had us do this in one of his fast paced classes.

Dave Wells

Nice work in the Gallery....

You can also bend a long piece of round stock in a narrow "U" to make a quick set of spring fullers. And then I've seen folks use the reins of a pair of tongs as fullers. That made me cringe, though.

DW, Nice work you have posted in the gallery- I'm sure the folks who got those presents were very pleased.

If I don't get a chnce to say it tomorrow- Happy New Year All!

Steve G

Automobile accident was my fault, just about any simple reason to plead not guilty?

I was a week ago in a traffic auto accident, pretty minor, but I rear-ended somebody. I was specified for Failure To Keep Assured Clear Distance. Possibly there is any reason I should never simply plead guilty and pay the fine? It seems like pretty cut-and-dry.

vagfds

To Vajazzle ones self is theprocedure of placing crystals onto the vulva area with self adhesive. vajazzle tattoos can be purchased in many different designs.

fullering gallery misc. thinking

Mike B:

Good idea about useing one long piece. I've seen a few smiths use there tong reins also, as you mentioned.----Melvin did this also, part of his teachings, to use different things. As useing different parts of the anvil (as the sides and side curves of the base of the anvil. (I personally don,t like useing tongs as fullers or for twisting, my preference.) but Melvin thought "its a tool, it can be replaced by making another".------My reasoning is that I've got various tongs I made for light work and for normal or heavier work. Almost always when I have a meeting, someone will use my light tongs and try twisting heavy stock (miss-aligning my light tongs). And most of the time there heat isn't as high as it should be anyway. I prefer useing a wrench for twisting, for that reason.---------This is what I'm trying stressing to my grandson, useing the right tool (example useing the correct size wrench for a nut or bolt,useing the wrong size rounds off the corners and makes things harder later.) Hes got ADD which makes things a little harder in teaching and remembering.

Rudy:
Refering to the box joint, I meant to say useing the appropriate type of stock you need for the fullering. The male half of the box joint requires useing square stock as your fullering pieces your holding.-----And during the class, the next day someone brought in a fullering tool to use under the treadle hammer. Melvin said "I knew someone would end up doing something like this."---------------(Blood blisters and pinched fingers makes you think.) His teaching made you think (outside the box). He also taught the old method of repetition, making several pieces of one part/ making several pieces of second part, etc. then making the final tool. I still got some pieces in a bucket from the class that I haven't put together yet. (The two halves was basicaly ruffed out, without deciding what type of tool was to be made, wrench/ nippers/ etc. Drawing out the reins and bits and assembling the two halves.

Steve and Dave:
Thanks. Presents was for my two kids.

Misc.
Well the snow covered ground (was covered for over a month) is now bare and wet ground again. We had two days of wet and warm weather. 57 degrees this morning. The snow is gone by by till the next time.-----------Going to work on a couple knives I ruffed out and stuck in a bucket of wood ash a couple of days back. Some grinding and sanding today, and I got two cable knifes I need to soak a bit in Muratic acid to take away the leaching borax.

New Years:
Happy New Years to all. And be safe.----------Thanks to Sparky for keeping this site going and to those good people that post here. I've met some good people/ smiths / and friends here.

gallery

S Gench:

Good idea on making the eclipse. Can't wait to see your finished railing.

I could have used your idea in making my oval grease frame on the colonial meat rack I did. I tried (once) making a grease pan to fit my oval frame. It didn't look right. Maybe I'll try again sometime.

By any chance did you see the open gas forges they had at Quad State several years back? This is when that group was hot on making different styles of forges. The one I seen was a open loop that you passed the piece through (similar to electric induction coil). I don't think it got that hot and probably used a lot of gas. Only seen it one time.

Happy New Year!

Just wishing all a Happy and Healthy New Year (hopefully with some prosperity stirred into the mix!).

spelling prosperity misc.

SGensh:

Steve> Sorry about the miss spelling in past post. I'm all thumbs.-grin-

Ellen:
some prosperity, we need. Hope gas prices go down next year.-grin-

Misc.
Spent some time in the shop. I had one of those new grinding discs for my angle grinder. The type that is solid with three open slots on the diameter. Had it for a couple years and decided to try it today. I like how the disc cuts, but it is dangerous when you get up next to a hooded sweat shirt. Better the sweat shirt than the skin, according to the Mrs.----Got some pieces soaking in Muratic acid.

Happy New Year Everyone....... :-)

Happy New Year! Also, thankyou Sparky for continuing to host our cyber gathering.

Tom C

Happy New to all!

Happy New Year!

Thanks Sparky!

Happy New Year!

Nice stuff in the gallery.

For those into numbers......... 1-1-11 ............ I'm off to get my lottery ticket.

JIM

Happy new year

and many blessings for the coming year to you all.

On the subject of new year's resolutions, I once read an article written by famous author James Michneor (sp?) in which he recounted a yachting trip he had taken with an assortment of other folks, including a doctor. He was in his mid 60's at the time, and asked the doctor to asess his health and lifestyle and give him some advice towards a long and health life.

After checking him out a bit and offering some other advice, the doc. told him, "From this point on in your life, there should be just three kinds of things for a man your age.
1. Things you want to do
2. Things you have to do
3. Things you DON'T do.

While that has to be tempered by a bit of common sense and consideration for those around us, it seems like a pretty good model for a new year's resolution....Joe

michneor

JOE I am just finishing up the Michneor Historical FICTION novel that is titled TEXAS. you want it when i am through with it?

He has a lot of things that you have three choices to interpretate or reason with or options for any number of things, sometimes four if he is sitting at his clicker while pulling his chin and supposing this or that.

Just finished my Black-Eyed Peas. Should help my luck for another year.

chuck

Well shoot, Sandpile(The Kid) once gun slinger now knife maker didn't get the New Mexico pardon. I think you can still rest at ease in Texas because after 120 years they are not still looking for you anyhow...grin ;)

Michneor

Thanks, Sandpile, but I have read "texas" and almost everything else he wrote, although I am sure I missed a few. I got on a Michneor jag years ago and plowed through a great bunch of them.

I also really liked "space" which was the life and times of our space program from the beginning. I have recomended it to a lot of young folks who missed the crazy roller-coaster of the 60's and want to know what it was like....Joe

New Year

Any hang overs, out there?----------Walked down the road New Years Eve, talking to the neighbor.(82) Was talking how we USE to celebrate. Wiser and older now, we stay at home. It was raining when the hour struck 12. Stuck my head outdoors and didn't hear the usual guns and fire works going off.

Joe Rollings:
That doc had sound advice.-----Its funny how wiser you get in older age. I didn't think anything about smokeing around my kids and in the house in my younger years. Smoked cigars/ pipe/ and cigaretes. Now at our house , all smoking is done outside or on the porch during the winter. My wife and I quit smoking several years back.---When time gets shorter, you want to live longer.
Misc. smithing:

Misc. smithing:
I started the New Year out wrong. Spilt half my bucket of muratic acid on the shop floor. Splashed a bunch of motor oil on the forge floor while hardening some pieces.------Hope things change.

stuff

I like the way I am getting smarter in my habits and handling other people.

My regular mode of op. is to pick up something drop it, pick up again and go on about my business. One of my Grandaughters was standing there watching me as I was getting my pills out to take them, putting the ones I did not drop in a small cup. I had dropped one and the sweety says "Are you going to pick up the pill or is the floor dirty or what"? I told her "Nah, the floor s clean, I just wait to pick it up in case I drop another, I won't be making two trips to the floor".GRIN

We have a coffee drinking buddy that really likes to get into hard discussions(arguements) about ANYTHING. He is a bit older than the rest of us and his gears are slipping once in a while. When he gets on a tear i will call the waitress over and tell her to hug old Charlies neck and tell him nice he looks.

She will and she always says something nice to him. When she leaves, Charlie turns to us saying "Now where were we"? We can't remember either. Works almost everytime.LOL.

Wife still smokes everywhere. Bedroom, living room, bathroom, car. I told her the other day I was going to start back smoking she looked at me saying "I don't thnk so"!

Life is great if you don't weaken.

chuck

Quiet New Years

I finished reading the new Tom Clancy book, "Dead or Alive". A page turner and good read.

I enjoyed reading Space by Michenor; also the "Right Stuff" by Tom Wolfe. I've celebrated enough birthdays to remember the "missile gap", sputnik, our rocket fizzles at first, and then the first successful Mercury launch. High school geometry teacher brought in a TV so we could watch it live.

wow gold

I was righteous wondering if anyone has any tolerable stratagies for getting gold... im tired of walking everywhere necessitous ;_;
Thanks for the pirate

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

I remember, too, Ellen

And from time to time, still beat my shoe on the table and scream, " we will bury you!"....Joe

New Year

Thanks to all.

Thanks Sparky.

Thank you veterans every one.

New Year

Well seems the new year is starting off on the right foot. Got a call Sunday from a potter to make a bunch of handles for her fire starters. I've made these for her for years so I got a plan! Starting in on them today!
JIM

Chuck's plan for dropped pills

That may be a good plan for you, Chuck, but it won't work for me. By the time I have dropped the second pill, I have forgotten not only where the first one rolled to, but the very fact that I dropped it! If I wait more than a few seconds to pick up a dropped pill it is gone from my memory!~

I asked my dad if he's ever went into a room and forgot why he went there ? He said " hell I catch myself in the middle of the stairs and can;t remember if I was goin uo or down ".hehhee

uo = up

Back in the early 1960's we lived just outside Washington DC as my Father worked for NASA. I can still remember waking up and hearing the planes overhead and wondering if WWIII was starting...

Nowadays my kids can hardly believe life was like that!

Thomas

Thomas,

I live where I grew up, just outside Washington D.C.. A few years ago I'd wake up and hear the F-16s on patrol after 9-11.

On the other hand, when people ask if I'm afraid of terrorist attacks, I point out that for the first 20 years of my life (or so) I lived at the original ground zero. What's a handful of guys with box cutters compared to an arsenal of ICBMs?

New Year, Pallet Wood

Glad to hear everyone had a decent New Year - quiet this year stayed up till midnight reading then went to bed.
We've been getting internal scrap processed outside so we can load it in the induction furnaces - high grade 300 series stainless from our powder annealing furnaces. It's coming back in on local rough made pallets - bottom stringers are roughly 4 x 4 about 5 foot long with rough cut 1" + thick top boards. Seems to be mostly a mix of PA hardwoods - maple (some spalted)and wild cherry with an occasional piece of oak. I've been scavenging all I can - it's a bit of a pain tearing them apart as the builder makes plentiful use of a nail gun. Just couldn't stand to see those 4" x 4" cherry stringers just burnt in the trash - looks to be air dried at best.

We used to live in McLean VA back when I could ride my bike around pretty much anywhere in town and I in single digits; nowadays I'm nervous driving a car in the traffic there.

As to the original ground zero---I don't recall any housing near the Trinity Site out here in NM. The MacDonald Ranch hasn't been inhabited for a long while!

Pallets and twisty nails: one method I've used to remove nasty twisty nails when the tops have popped off was to heat the protruding shafts with a propane torch---don't scorch the wood! and let the heat travel down inside the wood and make the nails easier to draw with a big pair of visegrips and a piece of 2x2 to bend them over.

The building behind my old shop used to be a sign shop and they would get steel and plastic in on 12' long heavy duty pallets. I rebuilt 1/2 my shop roof with oak 4x4 instead of the pine 2x4 originally used. (a local lumber yard went out of business so it was decked with 3/4" PT plywood)

Drywall also can come on large very stout pallets.

Dunnage wood for transporting large pipes is often good hardwood and often discarded in the trench when they set the pipe.

Thomas

Terre Haute

Dave Wells,

What is happening a Terre Haute thus month? What is the location?

We are still alive here in our part of the cornfield. Yesterday, Lilly went to a visitation, I stayed at home. I felt like I could have been the guest of honor. I still have the flu, Doc said that I be better by Febrary.

Bob Haverstock

Bob Haverstock

If I had the flu and my doctor said I should be better by February, I think I'd get a new doctor (and a second opinion)...

Was the "visitation" that event with the birds and fish in Arkansas?

Get well soon.... at least sooner than Feb.

terre haute

bob Haverstock:

Don't know for sure about Terre Haute, I'm thinking that they start holding the meeting at Max Hopegardener shop, because of colder weather. Max has a forging press, etc. does a lot of pattern welded knives/ etc. nice work. ---I'll check and get back with you. Rural Smiths is meeting at Ted Stouts this Saturday. Same place IBA held there 30th. celebration. South west of Layfette.-----Flue, hope you get better before feb.

Wood pallets:
Before I got interested in blacksmithing, I use to go to Indy, at a big trucking terminal and get free pallets. Always takeing my horse trailer and filling the truck and trailer full of pallets. I tore them apart and burned the wood for heat. To much trouble taking the nails out.----Yes I took the nails out because we didn't want to throw the ashes out back and have nails everywhere geting in the tractor tires.----Bet I missed out on a lot of nice wood.-grin-

Thomas,

I live in Arlington. The traffic doesn't seem that different from when I was growing up, but the county's close enough in that it was pretty built up even then. Of course I might notice a big difference if I'd moved away and come back. And there's a lot more traffic on I-66 than in the backyards it replaced . . . .

Good point on the "original" bit.

Pallets

Every time I go into town to pick up supplies I grab pallets to burn. Cut them up with the chain saw- I have an eye on a 16" Flat belt driven table saw that will be used for cutting- nails stay in. I sift the ashes in a sifter I got hanging from a tree. Dump the nails in the steel bin for recycle, and save the charcoal for demonstrations or BBQ. Been using the charcoal for BBQ more then the demos.

Speaking of demonstrating I got to do more of that this upcoming year. I set up a trailer and was doing 3-4 a year. Stopped doing it cuss the work was coming in good. Not coming in good any more )-:
JIM

busting up pallets

If you hit the 1x just on each side of the main 2x4 with a 12 pound doublejack or singlejack, with great vigor, the 1x's will break in two and make great starter wood and you'll only have to cut the main 2x's, in between the nails for the heating wood. Wear glasses, cause the wood flies...Joe

Buy Cheap WOW Gold

I was just wondering if anyone has any piece-goods e freight stratagies after getting gold... im tired of walking 'round poor ;_;
Thanks after the help

Back to a Little Forging

I spent most of the past couple days in the shop and working on the 3B. I made another large key fob... and this time, a skeleton key for it. I also played a bit with a press I am working on and made several steel bowls. Posted some pictures...

Two days til Gichner's. Hope to see some of you there.

Dave's key

That is a nice leaf and key! I couldn't afford a place with a big enough door for that lock! BUT, if one owns a 3B they have to have big things!

John Fe

I've got some brownies here I was going to bring to Gichner's, but I think there may be too much frosting on em....

Gallery

Dave Hammer:

You from Texas?------------Nice work on the fob, key, and bowl.

I watched Hoffi at quad State make a candy dish about the size of your bowl. Of course he had a striker, and they raised the sides with hammer and sledge.

John O and Dave W,,,, Thanks!

Dave hammer - I'll be the judge on if'n the browines have too much frosting or not.hehehe
See ya fri evening ?

Yup!

Various non-BS

First, belated Christmas greetings and Happy New Years to all.

Then there's belated Happy Birthdays to many including Rich and Thomas - Congrat's on surviving another trip around the Sun!

Spent the holidays out on Vancouver Island with my family. Kids were impressed with the size of the trees, going to the beaches for shells and rocks, then up the mountains for tobogganning one day, skiing and snowboarding the next. I was (very easily)talked into trying snowboarding - I took an entry course up on Mount Washington (B.C.) thoroughly enjoyed the experience (and much easier on the knees then skiing.)

Changing tone - has anyone heard or read anything from Kim Saliba? I haven't really since the short while after she moved back to Hamilton.

Sparky - many thanks for the website, I hope you had a nice summer day for your Christmas.

A warmish -9 Cel North of the Lake (Ontario.)

Don

Don Shears

Kim is doing fine. There was a fire where she worked (a while back), which caused a little consternation, but she is back at work now. I occasionally correspond with her though FaceBook.

Gichner's

Have fun at Gichner's all. I'm not going. tight on the money front.
Dave H,
No hammer workshop for me. Same reason as above.

OH WELL,
JIM

Hammers and Gichner's

The hammer workshop Jim is talking about above is Nathan Robertson teaching at my shop on January 15 and 16 (the weekend after Gichner's). There will be seperate sessions on Saturday and Sunday and the cost is $75 per person. All the materials are provided and you will go home with a completed heat treated and handled hammer that you've made yourself. We'll be working out of gas forges in two man teams, each team will have a forge and an anvil so there shouldn't be any waiting around for tools. The shop is located in Rosemont, NJ 08556. We have a few of openings left primarily for the Sunday session so if you are close enough and interested email me at sgenshatcomcastdotnet or see me at Gichner's if you are going to be there. Both events should be fun; I'm particularly looking forward to seeing Brian Brazeal demonstrate at Dave Hutchison's. Wish you could make it Jim but I certainly understand. Steve G

hammer workshop

I took the workshop. A ton of info and well worth the cost. Fill up the classed folk Lets make Nathans trip worth it!

Yup I'm bummin.)-:

JIM

Gichners

See you all Saturday mid morning. Riding up with the in laws...going to be good to see everyone!

:-)
Peyton

Gichner's

Sadly, I can't make it this year. The Gichner Memorial Hammer-in is a great event and one I'm really sorry to have to miss. Dave Hutchison is a terrific host and his heated shop building is just right for watching great demos and seeing friends. The food is always plentiful and tasty, too - just ask John Fee.

I seem to be recovering pretty well from the whole collapsed lung/pneumonia episode, just takes longer than I have patience for. :-) I'm hoping that I might be able to make it to Spring Fling, and I'm definitely planning to make it to QuadStates Roundup. QS '09 was the last trip I made so I figure by the time Spring Fling rolls around I'll have been here steadily long enough that Sally will pay my way just to get rid of me for a while. (grin) I'm certainly ready for a vacation right now, I just can't afford either the time or the money at the moment. While I was lying around in the hospital and at home it seems that the pixies completely failed to keep up with my work so I'm pretty badly behind on everything and not quite energetic enough yet to maintain the pace I need to get caught up. I'll get there though, it just takes patience.

You guys have a great time at Gichner's and tell everyone hello for me.

Rich

Rich Waugh

Glad to hear you are on the mend. Better to be behind than to be without work.... Get er done and get your butt up here for Spring Fling. We miss you buddy.

Rich, what Dave said.

I'll be rolling into Cordova MD around 5:00. I have some more 4140 bars to sell/trade.

See y'all then!

Tom C

Spring's fling

Dave, Tom, etc,

I talked with my brother Riley tonight and am contemplating something like a 10-day or two week trip up that way for Spring Fling. Probably try to make it so I see Riley for several days, visit with Tom and Louise a day or two, visit at Dave's hammer (wait, that should be Dave Hammer's) for another day or two, do Spring Fling and then up to Jersey to see Gensh and others for a while, then head home. Or maybe start at the north end and work my way south instead. It would be a matter of seeing who I could mooch beds and rides from at what times to get everywhere. Oh sure, I could just rent a car but what's the fun in that? More fun to travel with other people. Sometimes it's even cheaper, but that would never enter into my calculations. (grin)

I'll be trying to get things worked out in the next few weeks so I have a plan in place. I'm definitely due for a little time off the rock.

Rich

Rich

Yea......... Sounds good Rich.... My time is your time for your trip.

Hey Rich, sounds like a great trip! Louise & I have a place for you anytime.

I'm taking off for Gichner's in a few minutes.

Tom C

Hello all

Hi, I am new.This is my frist post ...lol.
say hello to all.

Kim

Happy, Happy Birthday! Hope you have an extra special day!
Bev

Happy Birthday Kim

☺☺☺

Happy Birthday Kimmie

Happy Birthday Kim....

8th Annual Gichner's now history

What a GREAT weekend. There was a little snow on Saturday morning, but otherwise the weather was not too bad. It was a bit brisk in the tailgating area. John Fee resurrected his role as emcee and was his usual inimitable self. It was really good to see all the usual suspects. For those who could not make it, we missed you. Phil Heath forged and assembled a very nice garden gate in 2 half-day sessions. Brian Brazeal was a wealth of knowledge and ideas. What a great way to start off the new year!!!

Gichner's

I had a fine time at the 8th annual Bill Gichner Memorial Hammer-in this past weekend.I got to see some friends from the forums & watch some informative demos put on by Phil Heath & Brian Brazeal.The turnout was great considering the weather(a little snowy or "springlike" if you're Nathan). Speaking of Nathan, he showed up Saturday after driving straight through from Minnesota. A dedicated fellow, he. I picked up some birthday presents for Louise from Dave Hammer & Blue Moon Press which were well received (thanks Dave & Judy).
Thanks to Dave Hutchinson & Lance & everyone else who made the event go smoothly.

I posted a couple of pix in the gallery.

Tom C

Gallery

Dave and Dave - nice work! Thanks for sharing with us.

Tom - thanks for the Gichner's pics.

Rich

Gichner's

It was a great conference. Both Phil Heath and Brian Brazeal did outstanding as the demonstrators. Thanks Tom, for the photos. I posted one more of one of Brian's demo pieces. A good time all around.

Me

reading this on your blackberry takes a long while....

Thanks for all the birthday wishes!

Hope y'all are doing well.

Gichners

Like the others I had a great time. The MASA crew always puts on a really nice event at Dave Hutchison's farm and it's always good to catch up with friends there. This time there were two really good demonstrators with lots of knowledge to share. I was particularly impressed with the way Phil Heath worked with Matius. (Judy's grandson is just in the fifth grade and swung the sledge and held parts for Phil with his encouragement). I was really looking forward to Brian Brazeal's demo and wasn't dissapointed. It was good right up to late on Sunday when he finished up. It was close to six by the time the forge was cool enough to load in the car and I got out of there so I was a bit later getting home than expected but at least I got home. I just heard that Brian is still stuck in Maryland since the Atlanta airport cancelled his flight along with lots of others. At least he isn't stranded and waiting at the airport. Thanks for posting the photos guys. Steve G

gallery misc. smithing

D-ski:

Nice plaque.

Misc.
Saturdays meeting was great. Two different groups, held a meeting together ( Rural Smiths and a satelite group of IBA, (Rocky Forge). Rural Smiths trade item was a shovel, the host decided to have everyone work on making a shovel to trade, and to work in pairs with one from each group. This worked out great, meeting and working with someone you didn't know. A good time was had by everyone. New friends and different ideas learned.

Weather:
Here, we are geting ready to receive some of the snow everyone else seams to be getting. City and county snow plows etc. were out reasdy to go.

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

Ñòâàðíî èíôîðìàòèâíå áëîãó ïîñò îâäå ìî¼ ïðè¼àòåš. Ñàìî ñàì õòåî äà êîìåíòàðèøå è êàæå ïðàòèòè êâàëèòåò ðàäà. È'âå áîîêìàðêåä ñàì âàø áëîã óïðàâî ñàäà, à ¼à žó áèòè íà Ïðî÷èòà¼òå âèøå ó áóäóžíîñòè, ïðè¼àòåšó ìî¼! Òàêî�å, äîáðî îäàáðàíèõ áî¼à íà òåìó äîáðî èäå óç áëîã ó ìîì ñêðîìíîì ìèøšåœó:).

Alex Ivey

Sparky does not allow "h ttp" in a post. It's one of the forbidden words to avoid spam.

anvil bangin

Howdy
First Time To This hammer bangin site. I learned first learned bout blacksmithing at the Texas Squirrel Revival. Held at the First Pan Handle Self Righteous Church. Keep a look out for me at your hammer gathering in a grey 79 Ford peekup with a wide red stripe on the sides. My bumper sticker reads don't touch my old lady I don't bang on your anvil. Looking forward to chewing the chaw with ya'll.

dizi dizi izle dizi sitesi Film film izle online film dizi seyret 878

wheres everybody ?

I was almost afraid to post. Looks like the spamers are back.-Don't be afraid.-

I'm still here. Just have nothing to say.

Still here too, but very busy in the last few days. Too much to do and not enough time.

DW It sounds like your combined meeting was good fun for all. Our next PABA meeting in Feb is a joint one with the NJ group and some of the NOMMA guys too. We've been doing this for the last few years and it's always been good.

I'm looking forward to the hammer workshop with Nathan this weekend. We've got a pretty good turnout lined up for both days. Of course now I have to clean the shop before then (grin). Steve G

Fireplace Crane & Chain Trammel Finally Finished!

Pictures are posted in the Photo Gallery

With the addition of the corner brace and the chain trammel (and stove blacking on the crane and wax/oil on the trammel) the fireplace crane for our new house, Grey Havens, is now fully operational. This was a custom job (…aren't they all?) for the specific fireplace so that my wif could fold it away to one side when not needed.

We had a test run of the incomplete system two winters back when one of my friends from North Dakota (or, as she calls it, “Baja Canada”) was snowed in with us, and the power was out, during an ice and snow storm. The unbraced crane, with S hooks, was good for boiling water, but it was a little awkward to adjust the height; and the ash that goes up the chimney tends to fall back down into the food. (At our Viking camping events, there is usually some sort of side breeze that limits this phenomenon.) Next acquisitions- proper metal handled kettles for tea and lidded pots for stew (without the ashes).

I've been running pillar to post with the National Park Service, of late, so I've been making very few postings; but at least I have something relatively nice to show the crew here.

A good new year to all.

Take care and don't panic until the bear is in the tent! ;-)

The spamers have nothing to say....

Ignore them.

Atli

The bear is an illusion...

Where, in North Dakota, is your friend from?

Bits and Pieces

Enjoying good weather in the Minnesota North Woods and trying not to be too envious of Nathan who is out in New Jersey playing with my grandkids and hanging out with blacksmith friends when he is not with the grandkids. I have also balanced my township books, gone snowshoeing everyday, and read quite a few books.

Bev

Possible travel

My brother and I are considering a trip to England. Riley caught me at a vulnerable moment and I agreed it might be fun, so now we're actually looking into it. Probably in April or May, as both of us are long overdue for a vacation. It would probably use up most, if not all, of my travel time and funds for this year, but I've never been to England and it does sound like it would be fun to knock around there for a couple of weeks with no fixed itinerary. It's still in the planning stages so I'm looking for suggestions on places to go, people to see, things to do, etc.

Riley has been to England before and really enjoyed the Oxford area so we'll very likely start out there and branch out. I'd like to go see Bruce Wilcock, but it's a really long reach to get to the Shetland Islands from there. We'll probably have to confine ourselves to England proper and pass on Scotland and other distant places. Still, that leaves a lot of area to cover so we won't be bored, I'm sure.

Rich

Rich

Atli

Very nice fireplace crane! Should come in handy for the next storm and power outage, too.

Rich

England and more.....WOW! That will be a great getaway.

Dave

If we can actually make it come together it would be great fun, I think. Riley and his wife went there around ten years ago and the pics he showed me of the architecture and ironwork made me want to see it in person. Our respective wives have actually given us their blessing to do this trip, so the one real potential obstacle is not there. When I think about the cost of such a trip I cringe, but I haven't taken a real vacation like that since 1989 when I went to Mazatlan and I'm feeling the need of one. We'll see what happens as planning progresses.

Fish Gigs

Hey, Bernard Tappel,

Beautiful fish gigs in the gallery! How about a discussion on how they were made?

Randy

Anvil Forging (and shooting) & the Science Channel

I am the Associate Producer for a new show for the Discovery Science Channel showcasing Anvil Shooting. We are working with the mayor of Farmington, MO to organize a competition the first week in June. Aside from anvil shooters, we are looking to find someone who has the means and the knowledge to forge and anvil the old-fashioned way.

If interested email me at jessicas@sharpentertainment.com

Jessica Ribeiro, In the US, I could reccomend Steve Parker, Kurt Farrenbach and Clifton Ralph as a team to do a "Forge an anvil demo".
Last summer they forged a Blacksmiths post vice under a steam hammer run by a wood fired boiler. And by forge an anvil the old fashioned way you do mean say, 1880? Or would you be looking at say 880?
1880-1950 would be most likely big steam hammer with a several man team. The 880 ad would be something very different.
These guys are excellent and also personalities that would make a good show.

Look at the IBA, Indiana Blacksmithing site for info on that past demo.

Anvil Forging and shooting

"Old-fashioned way" covers a lot of ground. Y1K anvil forging with Thomas and Atli? No matter the time period I don't know if Ms. Ribeiro knows the scope of what she is asking for (unless she is talking really small anvils).

I hope they have good insurance if they are hosting an anvil shoot competition. I know anvil shooting can and has been done with minimal property damage or injuries but when you make it a competition it will encourage people who are already prone to dangerous activities to take it to new levels of Darwinism.

And then there is the issue of anvil abuse. Won't somebody please consider the poor anvils? ;)

Oh Yeah! Massive ground forges burning charcoal and blown by teams on large single action bellows heating large chunks of wrought iron to welding temp!

Now to get a kevlar tunic made with a nomex under tunic....

I would certainly agree that Steve and Clifton could put on a show that would be fascinating and accomplish the task---though to "modern times", only about 150 years ago... Steve is the one who forged the travel anvil for me based on one in the Roman museum in Bath England, the Yunque in the Camino Real Museum here in NM and various others in between those times!

Pay no heed to the ribbing; blacksmiths tend to grow into "characters" over time.

Thomas

anvil shoot competition

Miss Jessica Ribeiro is a youthful associate producer and has not done much research in this project . She is not aware that a competition tends to bring out least qualified .

Anvil Shot

I should've been a cowboy, but I love shootin my anvil with a colt 1873 and listening to the ring. Darn tootin, I am a faster draw than any baby budden I have run across. No anvil has ever shot back.

gigs fish and workshops

Bernard Tappel:

Those are good looking fish gigs. Nice job-----------a budy of mine sent me plans for a West Coast Salmon Gafe, hes from So Surey B.C.-----Ironically I recently purchased a nice gafe. When I replicate it I'll post a pic.

SGensh :
Everybody I talked to, enjoyed Nathans work shops. Have fun for all.

Anvil Shooting

Someone posted this on the AWS website:
www.coolestone.com/media/895/Anvils_Away/

Atli, Nice job on the fireplace crane. I like your fold up arm, good thinking there.

Bernard, Those gigs look really good. I'm with Randy on hoping you'll give us a little explanation of your process. Interestingly I chose a fish gig as one of the Iron Master of the Day Competition items for our PABA club this year. A friend lent me a book on old collector gigs and I was really impressed with the variety and the beauty of some of them. Should I try and get the title and author for you in case you don't have it?

DW, I just talked with Nathan a few minutes ago and we'll be setting up the shop tomorrow for the classes. It looks like we have eight people a day for two days which is just about ideal. I didn't realize you were into making knives in addition to your rural smiths activities. They look nice and functional too. Steve G

Atli and Bernard....Nice work in the Gallery

Anveer Shooting

Here is a much better video of my buddy Gay shooting anvils. Only thing better would be seeing a couple round jolly Smith's drinking a beer sitting on the anvil while being fired in the air. youtube.com/watch?v=IhQ4dE_RGnQ

Good info

Hello! gddekbe interesting gddekbe site!

Fireplace crane

Atli - pretty ingenious idea on the folding arm for the crane. I like it.

gigs

Thanks for the comments.

For Randy and SGensh . . . These are forged from a piece of truck spring, 1/4" x 2" x 12". I anneal them and cut the tines with a band saw. (Before I had a vertical band saw, I used to cut them with a hot cut.) Then I use a 1" guillotine fuller to transition from the tines to the socket area.

The tines are spread and the ends of the cut fullered with a 3/8 fuller to clean up the end of the cut and give the ends a nice spread. The barbs are cut with a thin chisel and the area behind the barb forged down on a hardy tool similar to a snub end scroll starter. Then the points are forged down, and the tines shaped into the gig shape.

The socket area is forged down to about 16ga. thickness with the top of the fan shape about 4 inches wide. Then just rolled into a socket.

I harden just the points in oil and draw to a dark brown to purple.

I usually sell a couple dozen of these a year if the rivers are clear and gigging is good.

I helped out at the PABA booth at the PA. Farm show last tuesday and yesterday.
Had a good time with Martin and Jeff and Stan.
Tues. ofcorse was the snow storm. I left the farm show about 6pm and it was snowing pretty good and had been for a while. Took me 4½ hours to (useally 3 hr.s) to get home. PA sucks at plowing and salting. Dispite that there was only one car in the south bound lane slid off the road and into some trees.
A few years back I was driving in VA. and it started snowing and the cars were all over the place. I drove 22 miles and never left the seen of an accident:-)
Then they shut down 95 cause of a 100 car pile up....
Oh yeah the car in the trees ? Yep VA tags.hehhee

Rich - we will miss you at some of the events but sounds like a great trip , have fun.

misc. class numbers

SGensh:

Steve, I'm not into making knives, just recyling old material.------ I used to big of a shoe/handle on the rasp knives,thinking thats what the customer wanted. Not so. He wants a smaller, straighter handle and smaller, longer blade.------ At our meeting a farrier came up to me with one of the knives. Mentioning that it was an Phoenix shoe. I thought I was in trouble, cuting an old (maybe collector) shoe into. He was just informing me about what kind of shoe it was and explaining about it.

8 people a day sounds good. ---Too many, makes hetic for the instructor and helper/ helpers. Good all around numbers. Good luck on the work shop.

John fee:
A few years back I was in Cookville, Tennesse on company business. The roads had a little sleet on them and they closed the schools.--------------Now the southern states are getting some of what us northerners take for granted.------Remember my wifes dad was from Crown Point, NY.

Misc.
Stoped at a couple ant malls today. Saw one old wagon chock made out of wood. It had some iron banding holding it together with small sharp metal spikes protruding from the bottom side of the straping. I've seen wagon drag breaks with chains but this is the first chock.

Bernard, Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate you taking the time to describe the process. Do you handle them before you sell them or is that up to the fisherman?

John Fee, Have you also noticed how PennDot has a special reflective paint that they use for road lines? I think they pay extra for it since it seems to be specially designed to be completely invisible in rain or fog when you might actually need the guidance.

DW, Customers can be tough- sometimes even what they tell you isn't what they really want. We are about all set up; just a few very minor things like filling the quench buckets to do in the morning. We may have picked up a couple more participants today, we'll see if they actually show up. Steve G

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<b>òåë. (495) 766-55-28</b>
Àíäðåé Âèêòîðîâè÷
icq# 608-981-924
spojler-auto@mail.ru

Steve - I don't put the handle on. Giggers will the typically put a 12 to 16 foot handle on these, depending on where they gig. Most use wood closet rod, some are using fiberglass hot sticks.

BTW, I forgot to ask you about the book you mentioned. I would be interested in the title and author. I have the book by Ray Joe Hastings on the Current River style river gigs and bow gigs.

Have fun Steve G.

I'm sure you guy's are hard at it trying to keep everyone on task. Say Hi to Nathan for me, and anyone else I know. I'd would have liked to be there helping. OH WELL
JIM

Anvil Shooting

I was at the "Old Time Flywheel Reunion" in Macon, Missouri a few years ago. One of the fellows that had a few hit and miss engines also Shot the anvil for the opening of ceremonies every day in front of the grandstand (actually the other side of the field). I helped him two days in a row. In the interest of safety, I have a couple of comments should any of you find the irresistable urge to try it.
1. The plate underneath the bottom anvil will compact into the ground more each day. The first day, the anvil only went about 50 ft. high. By day 4 it was 3 or 4 times that.
2. It is essential that the bottom anvil be as level as possible so the top one goes vewrtical rather than launched like a mortar (shades of 'Nam). Use a level to verify that.
3. When he started doing it, the top anvil was cast iron. He set it off and was barely missed by a projectile which turned out to be an anvil foot. So, steel only.
4. Sealant used was creamy peanut butter with craft paper.
5. If anyone complains that this is not about "Blacksmithing", remember this is an historical event at old time blacksmiths shops, pre-OSHA et. al.

Macon, MO

Geez, I haven't heard Macon mentioned since I was a kid. When I was in my early teens I used to spend summers on my uncle's farm in Rothville, about 25 miles S/W of Macon. We'd go to Macon to the grain elevator about once a month. Rothville had a population of 311 at that time, so to me Macon and Brookfield were the "big cities" back then. I wonder what they're like now.

gigs

Bernard Tappel :

Whats the difference between fish gigs and frog gigs?----At a blacksmith meeting today, the host had things hung on the shop wall, and they was talking about this gig, 5 prong and somewhat heavy. They was calling it a frog gig. I stated that it was a fish gig, to no avail.----I've been frog giging with my grandson, and we used a light weight two prong gig on long poles. Useing them from a boat while working the banks.----------I don't know if any of them have been giging for frogs or fish.

Loren T:
They had a bit on anvil shooting on cable tv recently. The guy doing the shooting, was either from Missouri or Illinois.

dw - The difference between fish and frog gigs is size. I would say you are probably right on the heavy 5 prong being a fish gig.

Rich - I had to look up Rothville MO on the map, had never heard of it. Looks like it is about 130 miles north of me. As far at Macon and Brookfield, I doubt that they have changed much since you were there. I get through there once in a while. BAM had a meeting near Brookfield about a year ago or so.

Bernard, I'll ask my buddy Tim if he can check the title and auther of the book on gigs he lent me. As I remember they were mostly older ones.

We had a really nice class event with Nathan today. We had eight students who all went home happy and satisfied with a completed hammer and a couple of drop ins just watching for a while. One of those is coming back tomorrow for the full class after seeing how much fun everyone was having. It was good time for all of us and I'm really glad we are doing it. We had a couple of guys from as far away as Virginia and from so far north in NY that it's almost Vermont today and they felt it was well worth the drives. Nathan is an excellent and entertaining teacher- I hope you are feeling proud of him Bev. Steve G

Steve Gensh....

Thanks for the report about today's class. I hope tomorrow's goes as well. I definitely am feeling very proud of my eldest. I think he takes after his father who was also an excellent and entertaining teacher.
Bev

anvil shooting...

really does there need to be a televised game show? honest to gawd someone is gonna get hurt.

Stuff

Well, sounds like a real great time at Steve G's. To bad I missed out on the festivities.

Bev You sure some of that teaching gene didn't come from you? (-:

Anvil shoots, chucking pumpkins is quite a risky deal as well... I'm all for it. Let the world me the likes of us. (-:
JIM

Jim Fecteau

Thanks Jim but I don't think so! (I don't have the gift of gab that those two have/had).

Hope all is well in the Northeast! We are enjoying a very crisp, cold sunny morning!
Bev

Class and Stuff

Things ARE well in the East (and Northeast). I had some quality grandkid time Friday and again (a little) Saturday evening with Nathan's hammer class sandwiched in between. Doesn't get any better than that. The class was awesome. Thanks again to Nathan and Steve for providing the class and a first class shop to hold it in...

D-ski.... Nice ornament.... and I liked your man-cave sign at Gichner's.

I posted a couple pictures....

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Поздравляю вас Старо-Новым годом, желаю вам в новом году успехов и спасибо что вы находите время поддерживат&#
1100; ваш замечательн&#
1099;й блог!

Good info

Hello! bcafffd interesting bcafffd site!

great pics in the gallery.
Dave missed you and all that went to the hammer workshop.
Nathan does have the gift of gab. (-:
-18 deg F here this a.m. Wake up weather!
OKAY off to work!
JIM

Jim F.

We missed you also. Your work will pick up.... Not a doubt in my mind.

-18 is colder than I want to see anytime soon. With any wind, that might be a little chilly. Have a great one...

Dave's Road Trip

Dave I thought you and the Recluse were on your way up. If you wait much longer winter will be over, it has already warmed up to -17. The highways will be a great learning experience for ice racing. I went down to Regina in a storm the other day, was that fun I learned not to pass the snowplow/sand/salt truck just before the one and only valley. It never use to bother me winter driving but my mortality has become more apparent with age. The road was much better on the way back stopped in to fill up with gas 11 snowmobiles ahead of me at the one and only pump, you will never see that in Dalhart Tx :)

Nice work in the gallery, I especially like the hammer.

Daryl

Thanks...

I guess Roger was bluffing.

Dave's Hammer

Dave, really nice hammer. what is the weight of the head and what alloy did you use???

D-ski

The weight of my rounding hammer is 2 lbs 14 oz. Nathan provided the blanks. The notes indicate the alloy is 1144. Maybe an unusual alloy for making hammers, but it works.

Heat treating was soaking to a little above non-magnetic, then quenching in water. Tempered to a dark straw.

Praise The Lord!

HAPPY MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY!!!!

Hammer blanks

Dave, What were the approximate dimensions of the hammer blanks?

Never eleven.GRIN

DARYL We do have some guys around here that were originaly from Minn. They brought their whiners with them. In the winter when they can't farm and the bar-pits and fence rows are drifted they do get the fast boogers out and run on the farm side of the fence so the law can't say anything.

I was shocked at how fast some of these things can run. Scarey to an old fart.

chuck

John Odom

I didn't measure, but I think it was about 1.5 inches square. Nathan's notes show 1.5 inch square being used for a 2.5 pound hammer and I believe the blanks for the 2.5 and 3 pound were the same size square (measuring the finished hammer also seems to confirm that). He buys round stock and squares it up for the blanks. That would have made it 4.7 inches long (about right at start). When the handle hole was punched, it bulged the center out a bit (which then was driven toward flat with a rounding and flat hammer. Both ends were upset quite a lot to get the geometry I ended up with. I have already used this hammer a fair amount and definitely will use it a lot in the future. I expect to make a 4 and 6 pound (striking hammer) version of it in the near future.

Steve G. put a couple pictures from Sunday's class in the Gallery.

The Hammer Class

We all had a blast with the Nathan Robertson hammer classes at my shop this weekend. There were eight guys in the class each day which was just about perfect. You have seen Dave's hammer which was very nice. All of the other participants made nice hammers also which isn't too surprising given what a good teacher Nathan is. He left here this evening after cleaning up and prepping tools for his classes next weekend in Ohio at SOFA. I had set up three Fisher anvils fom four hundred to two hundred pounds and one Hay Budden which was only about 160. I figured the small one would be used for the smaller hammers someone would surely make but I was wrong since nobody made a hammer under about two pounds. I had made a three legged metal stand for that little Hay Budden the day before the workshop so with that type of stand it had no extra mass added to it. At one point Sunday Nathan was doing some overhead stiking for the person using that one and the poor little thing was bouncing about two inches off the floor with each blow. I hope Dave Hutchison got some pics of that but I could only take a quick glance as I was striking for somebody else at the time. We were able to work eight billets at a time out of two gas forges so it seemed there was always some hammering going on. All of the anvils had nice warm faces each day. It was near thirty out both days but we had the fan on and the doors open once we got moving and just about everyone was in a tshirt during the forging stages. We put the bader grinders outside in the cold to encourage people not to grind too much which helped a little. There were lots of smiling faces both days and I'm really glad we were able to do it.

I put two pics in the gallery, one of Nathan's stock and tool tables set up in front of my press brake and one of the hammers made the second day. I wish we had taken a similar shot of the first day's hammers. Steve G

Well I sure enjoyed the 3 day weekend, spent Saturday and onday in the shop. Amazing how many little things you can figure out needing doing before a week lone campout forging demo. Shoot I even made a couple of replacements grates for the coal forge---just in case.

I also made a couple of wattle panels; been around 8 years since I made some, good to get back in practice!

Weather was on the warm side, I was tooling around looking for proto-wattle with the window down and no jacket and my shirt un buttoned showing off my roadkill cafe tshirt under neat it. I guess a little sweating during January is probably good for me.

I finally made a connection I've been wanting to make for a long while---the local scrappers came round and stopped by and I was able to unload all the *junk* that I can't use (to paraphrase a friend "One man's junk is another man's treasure except for Thomas' junk which is NO MAN'S TREASURE!" Save for the scrappers, perhaps. I dug deep as I wanted to get friendly with them and got rid of a lot of galvanized stuff, rusty pipes, cast iron, etc.

I then showed them around the forge---a calculated risk I know and told them that I would pay way more than the scrap yard for smithing stuff! Fellow told me he had just scrapped out an anvil---I could have cried. Sure got to dust off my smithing spanish as the boss didn't speak english much and none of the kids---teenagers knew the spanish words for smithing equipment. But since I could point to the various items and tell him "Quiero comprar estos" we did ok.

He did ask if I would be interested in buying some metal that was sized like my anvil stumps! Even if it's cast iron it would make a heck of an anvil stump!

I'm turning was was originally just the support table of the Y1K forge into a sort of swiss army forge table. Bolted the 3" post vise to it and a tong/hammer rack to it and the tool holder for punches and chisels and pliers. Trying to cut down on other stuff to take---now lets see if I can figure a way to take it set up and so save a lot of time fiddling...

My current plan is to leave Monday Feb 14 and waddle my way west---(unless the weather is bad in which case I will leave Sunday and head to Las Cruces and take the souther route.) With luck I will get to where I'm going in AZ with just enough daylight left to get my tent and bed set up. The forge can wait until the next day. Forging from Tuseday though Sunday AM then pack up and head back on President's day.

Anybody got a good Oatcake recipe for cooking on a griddle over a charcoal forge?

Thomas

Thomas

Where in AZ are you going?

hammer classes

SGensh: -

Steve, Sounds like you held a first class work shop. Glad everything went great for you, Nathan, and students.

Thomas

You are welcome to stay here Monday night and go set your tent up in the daylight on Tuesday......just let me know.

I'll be at the SCA's Estrella War held at Canyon Moon Ranch, 20585 Price Station Rd. Florence, AZ 85232, (this year, I believe we are looking into another site for the war, again...)

Ellen; that is a most gracious offer. Let me consult with my wife. Any possibility of Sunday night instead of Monday? Gives me an extra day to play after set up!

Thomas

Thomas

Sunday, Monday, whatever suits your schedule is fine. I always enjoy your visits and learn something, generally end up ordering a book or two. I can have dinner so all you have to do is snack to keep your blood sugar up.

Is it yours too

Very nice site!

Estrella War

I lived in Az for 39 years and was heavily involved with blacksmithing and AABA for the last 12, and I made fire irons and trammel hooks for SCA members. I had never heard of the Estrella War until now. You learn something new evey day.

Florence, AZ

The movie Stir Crazy was filmed inside cellblock 2 at Arizona State Prison. If you see it, let me know and I will tell you the story behind the design and installation of the guard tower inside the cellblock that you see in the movie. I fabricated and installed it during a former life.

Loren T - I like the movie Stir Crazy , seen it several times. One of the best scenes is where the BIG inmate sings down in the valley.

Hammer making class

Steve
Looks like you had a nice class in a very nice shop

Hammer Class

Thanks for the comments guys but all of the credit for a great event should go to Nathan and an enthusiastic group of "students". I'm sure he puts on a great class wherever he teaches. I just provided a spot to hold it and a few tools. If he's got a class going on in your neighborhood I'd encourage you to take it. Steve G.

Posted a picture of a horse shoe heart made by Brian Brazeal (the caption should say horse shoe "heart" not "hear" , but you know me and spelling :)
This was on display at Gichners as Brian was one of the demonstrators.

Estrella is probably only as half as big as Pennsic is; but it's a whole lot closer! It started I believe at Estrella Mtn Park in Phoenix; but we've out grown that site and moved to the Alfalfa farm near Florence; (and are hunting another site for the next "war"...)

By this time next year I will have been in the SCA 33 1/3 years---some of that is due to folks calling me up and begging me to bring a forge to events rather than having to almost get a pardon from the governor to bring one to other places. (I've been offered free food from a friend at Estrella; but I told here that I'd be happy to pay for fixings---just having somebody else do the cooking after a long day at the forge was a *royal* gift as far as I'm concerned!

I've started a walking program too, a winter in front of the computer screen's not good preparation for a week on my feet outdoors.

I will miss our SWABA AABA conference in mid Feb in Las Cruces NM; but OTOH I missed Estrella when I was SWABA President and felt it was my duty to on hand for our conference.

Thomas

Hear Hear... Heart?

classes

SGensh: Hammer Class

Steve, I know that you deserve some of the credit. It takes a good host to keep things runing smooth.----Credit to all.------------------------------When I took a class at Ozark School of Blacksmithing, although Jerry Darnell taught the class, Tom Clark was constantly doing things to help.

Misc.
Finished up my trade item for Feb. Logging hook. Also hardened two new knives, to be finished tomorow. around 5 inches of snow is supposed to hit us tomorrow.

war location possibilities

Thomas, please advise as to what kind of terrain you need to "produce" a war, the elevation, etc, and how many acres. I prob'ly can help.....Joe

dw - old trail's products

Post some pictures!

SCA Wars

Joe, I have no experience with Estrella but plenty with Pennsic - from memory, last year's numbers were about 10,500 (I know that's not exact, but it's close) Pennsic has been held at Cooper's Lake Campground in western Pa since 1977. (Google Cooper's Lake for a summary of the site.) Hosting the war has been very good for the Coopers, and pretty good for the SCA as well. Biggest needs for the wars are sanitation - porta potties, drinking water, showers etc. Access to the site, though we'll do odd things to get there - the site for the 1975 Pennsic in Chagrin Falls, Oh at a farmers field had been declared a natural disaster area due to hurricane/rain before we showed up. Of course numbers were a lot smaller then - about 350/400 people. Room to set up period tentage - preferably level, as 12' x 16' slanted wall marquis's do not like to be perched on steep hill sides. Some tents are larger some are smaller, and some modern tents show up as well. Period tentage survives weather issues such as storms and high winds much better than modern tentage. Elevation - more an issue out West, not one we deal with here in the East, but you'll have people doing strenuous athletic activities while fighting plus they'll be in armour with padding underneath it. The armour has gotten more authentic as the SCA has matured as an organization.

You can also google Pennsic and see photos and information from that. Of course Estrella will be somewhat different - for one thing you aren't dealing with western PA in mid/late August with high humidity and high temperatures.
Regards, Gavinh

Well you'd really need to talk to the event's organizers. My *personal* take on it is:

Access: Lots of folks showing up in overloaded vehicles wanting to drive to their campsite to unload. Then they need a place to park---even better if that's not visible from the camp area!

Lack of Access: this is not a public event, we'd like to keep strays out of it.

Camping needs: space, levelness, can we dig fire pits, drive tentstakes,etc?

Estrella currently relies on porta-potties that get serviced once or twice daily and shower trucks---some sort of potable water access is a must.

There needs to be room for the various battles to be held, generally on fairly flat and cleared ground. There needs to be an area for merchants to set up.

IIRC the current site is used for "Country Thunder" performances as well as it's base use as an alfalfa farm.

Understanding: there will be late night noise, folks wandering around in weird costumes, lots of steel weaponry on display, belly dancing, drumming, consumption of adult beverages, etc. Now the SCA will run it's own security and first aid people; but they are trained to rely on local police/EMS services when needed. (As I recall the local EMS service at Pennsic was able to buy 4WD equipment through funds raised by the War---we're not moochers!)

ptth://www.estrellawar.org would probably give a good idea of what is involved.

Note that in general we take care of all the stuff for the war and not the site owner---save for what they mandate that we use of their services.

Estrella was about 1/2 the size of Pennsic IIRC; but Pennsic is the "Gold Standard" for this sort of event. The Coopers have done very well from Pennsic; but then they also have plowed a lot back into the site that doesn't get used except for Pennsic. They also shut down their campground for an entire month in the summer to cover set up, event and tear down. I was there the year it was getting crowded so the Coopers mowed down a corn field to provide extra space. Here's an aerial shot of about 1/2 the Pennsic site about 7 years ago:
ptth://www.flame.org/~explorer/album/pennsic-27/arial/pennsic-27-207.jpg

Tho
mas

too bad.

Couple of likely sites hereabouts, but services would be wanting. They'd claim they could handle it, but not true, in the end....Joe

They are trying to start a new one up at a member's ranch about 63 miles north into CO along I25. Unfortunately the first year's event had 2 nights of sustained 60 MPH winds that really blew most folks away. My old canvas tent stood; but was too noisy to sleep. I should have just collapsed it and slept under it...

Thomas

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-30&#730; F

Cold, is the only description that come to mind

It's cold here also Jim. Just not quite as cold as there.

We had -30 something and -40 something with the wind chill last week. Yesterday we had above freezing. I was shoveling off the cabin roof in a tee shirt, that snow got heavy real fast. It looks like a good week here with temps around the freezing mark. A good thing as my shop heater conked out, at least it made it till the warmer weather.

Cold

Has anyone asked Al Gore for an explanation of this?

Why yes they have! If you read up on global warming it says that weather will get wilder as it occurs as there is more moisture in the atmosphere and more energy going into storm systems---so more blizzards and hurricanes are to be expected!

Thomas

CaptonZap

This sure isn't scientific but I regularly look at the temps in Alert Nunavut, it is about as far north as you can get in Canada and still get a meal. For the most part the days that I have checked, they have had warmer temps than we have. Today is the first time that I noticed that we are warmer. So maybe it is a temperature inversion, the north warms up and we get the cold. I don't have a clue what is happening maybe this is normal, but one thing we like to talk about here is the weather.

Armorers

Those of you that make and/or wear armor, check out today's "The Wizard of Id". It's kind of an eye opener!

believe or not to believe

CaptonZap Cold:

If you ask Al Gore about global warming, I bet it will cost you.------The mans geting rich.

Theres two sides to global warming. Those who believe and those who don't. Scientist are on both sides and have given statistic why.

Global warming

Actually, I don't know of any scientist who doesn't believe in it. Kind of hard to argue with 800,000 years worth of ice core data from multiple sites on multiple continents and a couple of million years of ocean sediment data, also from multiple sites. These all show multiple cyclic temperature swings on earth. Scientists can argue about how fast it is coming and when the tipping point will be reached - that is part of science - but when it comes, you will not want to be around.

Global Warming

I saw a statistic a few years ago that said there are about 2,500 scientists who believe in global warming, and about 19,000 who don't.

A few of the same alarmists who predict global warming in the near future were predicting an impending ice age 40 years ago.

Depending on whoose data You use, We have been in a cooling trend for the last 10 years.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

still cold

Opinions are like ............

Still bite a$$ cold here...... Another opinion. (-:

JIM

Cycles

Has anyone investigated the relationship between a particularly cold spell through the Ohio Valley and into the Northeast and our annual outbreak of global warming posts? It could be a great grant opportunity for someone if they act quickly- grin. Steve G

since global warming is only in our back yard ,its real, since NM had the 2nd warmest December on record. Actually climate change is a global conspiracy by Hg.

weather

Here in the Panhandle of Texas we have had record lows and record highs for the date. It has for the most part been a mild winter so far.GRIN

48 years ago was the coldest in Northern Nm. Jan. 12th to be exact.

chuck

warm as toast or colder than a well diggers ###

Last I say about global warming:

The goverment, etc. gives grants for studies on global warming. Wonder who gets these grants? I bet it isn't the non-believers.

Snarling Iron

Hi Dave,

The tool that I was thinking of last A.M. is called a snarling iron. I need to raise some dents from the inside. Perhaps you and Rich know it by another name.

Bob Haverstock

Snarling Iron

You got it right, Bob. I've made a number of snarling irons over the years. They're a great tool, particularly if you use them enough to learn where they're going to hit. For those using them for the first time I recommend hooking a laser pointer to you ceiling over the snarling iron and lining it up right on the ball end. That way when the vessel is over the iron and you can't see the ball end, the laser is lighting a dot on the vessel exactly where the ball will strike.

Rich

Bob H

That is the name of the tool I was thinking of also. I didn't remember the name, I just knew it was a little strange. A rose is a rose......

It was good to talk with you a bit. I had started to respond with an email yesterday, but decided the real social media was voice....

weather

I think its Sandpile who is familiar with the Moreno valley in winter. 2 winters ago in early January I was working up in Angel Fire it started raining pretty good and there was the most remarkable long flat winter rainbow over eaglesnest/Elizebethtown,cell phone camera did it no justice.

Moreno Valley

AARON--Do you still live in the valley??
I left there in '63. Almost all the people I knew have either left because of no jobs or the cold or have died.

I dayworked for the Lebus's on the Mesa Verde Ranch before they ever started Anglefire Ski Resort.

Is Kay and Leroy Moore still living at the Mesa Verde?

Has Butch Whitten finally gotten old enough he has quit jerking lions out of a cave by their tail?LOL

Good to hear from some one over there.

chuck

You mean when the Congress and the President were against global warming they were still giving grants only to believers in it?---How Very Odd. Why did they flip?

I find the real problem is the arguments over the cause of global warming---sort of like arguing over the cause of a flood while your standing in rising water. Better to get to high ground and *then* argue about it! Look at a statistical distribution of "hottest years" since they started recording temps accurately and tell me it's not been a tad warm lately. A better argument in my opinion would be "Can we do anything about it?" And if not "What can we do to mitigate the effects?"

I remember back in the 70's visiting Switzerland and seeing how much a glacier had shrunk there---a rail line had been run up to the end of it for tourists in victorian times. You now have to walk a couple of miles from the rail head to the glacier end.

Been reading about a lot of archeological discovers lately on the tops of Andes peaks as the snow cover has disappeared.

Even in interglacial eras there are highs and lows---look at the settling of Greenland during a high and the subsequent failure of the settlement during the next low.

I find the evidence of it occurring quite clear and persuasive; I don't know enough to argue the "how". I have noticed that some of the same folks/tactics involved in occluding "smoking is bad for you" are being put to work on this as well---makes me feel that someone believes they themselves are responsible and are trying to duck it....(sort of the opposite of what they are trying to do)

As for numbers of scientists; not a good basis to judge by. I've seen the memorial to the geologist that postulated that ice ages had occurred and covered much of North America---how he was laughed at! Now accepted fact. Alfred Wegener was rediculed for the idea of continental drift---now we commonly measure it. Most Drs were against the germ theory of medicine at one time.

Thomas who thinks we should make long range plans and *use* the "good weather" we've been given!

Global warming

Well put, Thomas!

I, too, find the evidence pretty overwhelming, as I read the studies themselves and don't pay much attention to the hype and polemic on the news or the forums. Yes, it most certainly is real and we need to look seriously and immediately at what can be done to mitigate the situation. Much of the rest of the world recognizes the problem ans wants to find solutions and are willing to commit to the effort. Unfortunately, those who are still in denial control the purse strings and much of the media, particularly in the US.

Big Extinction

CALGARY UNIVERSITY-- A number of Profs and Archalogists(SP) have made quite a find. The Big Extinction did not come from a Meteor but many billions of years before hand from a huge volcano eruption.

How would you like to have been in on that discovery??

chuck

hot & cold

LA NINO---The south Atlantic is cooling just as fast as the North Atlantic is warming.

Antarctica is making the same amount of ice as the Arctic is losing. Seems to me like it is a waste of breath debating something that has been proved purely(almost)political for monetarie purposes,---GRANTS-donation--celeb publicity.

chuck

El Nino

Chuck,

You make some very bold statements about Antarctic ice and ocean temps - can you cite any authoritative sources for these statements? Real scientists, not commentators, please!

Big extinction?

Chuck,

Indeed, the extinction of insects and other nascent life forms in the Permian era was caused by a volcano in, I believe, Russia. That is known as the Permian Extinction.

The extinction of the dinosaurs, however, was most likely caused by a meteor impact about 60-some million years ago.

It would seem that something is gonna get you no matter what, if you live long enough! (grin)

Rich

arctic ice & antarctic ice

RICH--Try Arctic ice and Antarctic Ice. The one below is one excerpt concerning the ice.

Keep in mind he is guessing on the snow building sea ice in the Antarctic. The Antarctic is the driest continent on Earth.

We hear everyday about the El Nino and La Nina in the Pacific. The same is happening in the Atlantic

h t t p://www.slate.com/id/2192730/

chuck

So is anyone doing any smithing in the lovely weather we're having? Only around 50 today here; but it will warm up for the weekend.

When the college kids were complaining about how cold the metal they were moving around in my shop extension was I told them to go place their hands on the east wall: white on the inside but blue on the outside and getting the full NM sun on it all morning. Made a good handwarmer---I noticed the IR coming off it with my face.

Smithing has made me more aware of heat sources that I should keep track of. I also watch out for places I could "lose" hot iron---I'm filling in the small gap between the 2x6 that is the floor boundary and the steel walls. It's dry enough out here that a cut off could drop down there and smolder my floor edge for a long time!

I plan to fire up the forge this weekend and finish off 2 projects due before my medieval campout. Then probably set up some billets for the campout.

Thomas Powers

Smithing

Indeedy I have been smithing, Thomas. I spent the day today forging bars for a few dozen cupboard door handles and cutting stock for another five dozen drawer pulls. Boring, repetitive work but it pays the bills. Next chore, a hundred plus tenoned standoffs for those handles and pulls. More boring...

Also trying to think of a nice forging project for the retirement home my Pop was living in in Oregon. Pop passed away the day before yesterday and those folks treated him absolutely fabulously so I'd like to make them something for the place. Gonna take some thought, but I don't have much time. I'll be flying out there in a couple of weeks for the memorial service and to handle the estate business and I'd like to take it with me. Still having brain cramps on a suitable design, blast it.

Anyone in the Portland, Oregon area I should look up while I'm out that way?

Rich

Rich

My sincere condolences on the loss of your Dad
Daryl

Rich - Sorry about your dad but sounds like he was well cared for.

email address change

We just got a new ISP. My new email address is iot posted here, it is on farwestforge. This site has too many spammers!

This is all fiberoptic and gives us 30 mb/sec speed when plugged into directly. Wireless through my router I get half that, which is three times what I had before.

My Yahoo address, @yahoo.com remains active.

Rich and Portland

Rich if you are interested in copper raising, I have a friend Greg who is in Portland, he has taught me a lot and is pretty approachable.
This is and interview I found on the net
www.opb.org/programs/artbeat/segments/view/642
should give you an idea of his work.

Rich; my heartfelt condolences on the loss of your Father. Be sure to take extra care of yourself this next while. Our parents are our roots and loss of one makes us more prone to the winds of fortune.

As to what to make---perhaps a candle holder? A mirror frame?---picking up the mirror there of course amd perhaps making it a "break down" model as well.

Or just to cheer you up---How about a full scale totem pole!

Thomas Powers

condolences. some smithing

Rich:

Condolences on the loss of your Dad.
.

Misc. Went into the big city today, visited my daughter then went to a budys house, taking a couple knives for him to sharpen. I never was good sharpening knives. He use to make knives and stoped doing it because of health reasons breathing stuff.. (A throat cancer survivor) He and his wife both had done leather work for 40 some years, and decided it was time to give that up also. I bought everything he had at a good price.-----Nows the decision to take on another hoby or sell at a profit. My daughter thought of trying leather working.
Got home and helped my grandson cut and bring some fire wood home. He used a skid loader to load the big pieces. This wasn't but most of the wood already felled is black locust. Nice and thorny, boy are we in for prickly fun.

Rich Waugh

Sorry to hear of your dad'd passing...

Rich I offer prayers and thoughts and condolences for you Family.

I think I would not do a candle for a resthome, since they most likely prohibit candles. Perhaps a nice pen holder for the front desk?

Came home early today, have a sinus infection and or a throat infection. Been to the Doc, got the meds, now to get over it.

Rich

I am sorry to hear about the passing of your father. Sounds like his nursing home was as great as the one my father was in. We were both very fortunate to have a parent in a place where they were loved and well take care of.

Good luck on coming up with a forging gift. Do you know the lay of the yard? My father's nursing home had an inside courtyard where a lot of bird feeders hung on metal hooks or rods or whatever they are called. Another possibility would be a plant hanger for inside somewhere.

Take care...
Bev

Rich

Sorry to hear about Your Dad.

Idea for Rich

A knock-down plant stand?

Rich

Rich
Sorry to hear of your fathers passing. Lost my Dad last year. It was nice to have someone to use as a sounding board who liked me... that way if my ideas were totally wacko you get let down easier...

More thoughts on GW

h t t p://itmakessenseblog.com/2011/01/24/even-liberals-are-admitting-hoax-of-global-
warming/

Daddy, where does oil come from?

h t t p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Guess there is just a whole lota stuff that nobody knows for sure, but some folks don't know it with a lot more conviction than I do...

Fish Gigs

Bernard Tappel, I'm sorry it took me so long to get this information for you on the fish gig book I mentioned after you posted the pics of your very nice gigs. I got the title and author from Tim today. While I thought it was an old book he said it is actually current and you might want to email the author if you find it interesting. Any way here it is: Ice Fishing Spears by Marcel L Salive ISBN 0-9637209-0-2 I was surprised to find out today that there are people cutting them out with water jets and lasers too. I certainly didn't realize there was such a market out there. Steve G

corection

In an above post, I said I had seen a statistic a few years ago that said there are about 2,500 scientists who believe in global warming, and about 19,000 who don't.

I believe that the article said 2500 who believed global warming is caused by mankind, 19,000 who don't.

The article was by William Rusher, I don't have a copy of it anymore.

I never worried about rising sea level when I lived on My boat...

Rich...

Sorry to hear of your father's passing. I have a suggestion for a gift for the home.

When my folks were finishing up in a similar place, all of the old folks lost track of what was going on with the weather, but loved to be able to look out and see snow, rain, wind, ANYTHING to seperate one day from another.

I'd think that if there was a good place for the old folks to see it, a weather vane with a rotor on it would give them some entertainment....Joe

Dad and Gift

Rich sorry to hear of your dad passing. He must have been in his 90's.

I agree with JOE that would be a great gift.

chuck

Pop

I appreciate all the kind condolences. This is a fine group of people here who truly care for one another.

Pop's death was a blessing in many ways. He lived a very long (95 years) and good life and was happy. Just a couple days before he died he fell and broke his hip very badly and they couldn't do surgery on someone his age with a bad heart. All they could do was load him up on painkillers and make him comfortable. That only lasted two days, which was a merciful release for him. We should all have such a long life and an easy passing.

I'll be working frantically in the shop for the next week or so to try to get ahead of things a bit so I can be away for a week for the memorial service in Oregon. I'm happy I have the work to pay the bills - not everyone is so fortunate these days.

Rich

hooks and stuff

Rich,
With all the work you got to get out between now and your trip to see your Dad off, perhaps a hand full of hooks for the staff at the home and a kind word or two about how they took care of your dad and how you hope they keep up the great work for all the others still there, is as good as it needs to be. I'll bet the staff will be clambering for hugs.
Glad you got that hardware job. Boring is good, gives you time to think about the money you'll be making. With most of the jobs I've been getting it's more like "hay get your head out of the clouds and figure it out. your loosing money here."
(yup, I do talk to myself sometimes ☺).

Just finished up a bunch of hardware for 2 different customers I will post over at farwest
Got a ladder job, a FP screen, a small hand rail and that is it for work. Been slow.
JIM

Hooks

Love the hook idea for the staff, Jim. Of course I am partial to hooks (Nathan if you are reading this I know you are groaning). If there would be too many to make you could make a few for the home and then bring some food for the staff. I use to buy bags of chocolate and other candies, put in a gift bag and place in the staff break room.
Bev

Rich

Sorry to hear of your Dad's passing. It's never easy to lose a parent. Glad to hear he had such good care and an easy time of it.

Take care of yourself.

Rich's Father

Rich,
Please accept Lilly's and my condolences.

Something for the nursing home, I would include the Administrator early on in the gift planning. I would not like to think of you making a gift and not havung it well received by the management of the home. The final location of the ironwork should have a lot on inpact on the design.

Bob Haverstock

gifts and such

You are right about letting the administration in on the descision as to what and where, Bob.

My suggestion was based on an experience one of my daughters had years ago when she was a newly trained aide in a nursing home in Benson Arizona. She had noticed that the patients didn't really get much outdoor time, in fact she couldn't see where they got any at all. The place was understaffed and everybody seemed lucky just to get the work done every day.

She asked management if it would be all right for her to arrange ( on her own time) an outdoor memorial day ceremony for the old folks, with the playing of Taps and the salute, and got grudging permission, then talked to the American Legion and aranged for them to do the ceremony.

When the day came and the time was near, she and all of the other aides started wheeling the old folks toward the doors, telling them what was going on, and the old folks started protesting that they couldn't go out without their coats! They thought it was still winter! Nobody had been outside since fall!

For the rest of her time working there, she spent some off hours every week taking her patients out for a roll around the parking lot, and it seemed to help them keep better track of the world outside the walls.

Whatever you do, though, Rich, keep in mind that you gotta look after your own health in the process, and the gift will be as much apreciated a couple of months down the road as it would be at an earlier delivery, plus delaying it would give you a chance to confer with the administration.....Joe

Rich's dad

My condolences on the loss of your father. It is a comfort that he did have a long and full life.
I lost my dad in 1985, still miss him . . .

gigs

Steve - thanks for the info on the book. I will look it up.
I have the recent book "Bow and River Gigs" by Ray Joe Hastings on the Ozark style gigs. ISBN 978-1-935001-00-3

If anyone is interested, there is a series of videos originally filmed in the 1970's titled the Shannon County Film Project at cdm.sos.mo.gov/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=%2Fshancoflm. Starting on page 5 is a series of short clips of Ray Hicks of Shannon County, MO. forging a traditional Ozark gig.

- Bernie

Retirement home gift

I'm leaning toward making them an umbrella stand to be delivered at a later date - just too much (paying) work to do before I fly up there and I don't want to do a crappy rush job on it. The placed Pop lived, Willamette View in Portland, is a retirement community/home with everything. For ten years Pop had his own apartment, cooked some of his meals and ate others in the dining room, did his painting in their art center and played endless games of bridge n their tournaments. When his memory began to be so bad he needed assistance they provided it, always gently and very diligently. When his health got to the point he could no longer live n his own he was moved into their "medical center", in which he had his own room with his furnishings. Eight rooms surrounded a central dining/community area where he took his meals. 24 hour nursing care, as needed. When he broke his hip they took care of keeping him pain free until he died, a mercifully brief two days.

I can't say enough good things about Willamette View and their staff. When I visited Pop the people living and working there were always happy and cheerful and very, very helpful. The place was light, airy and open, with nice reading rooms, art facilities, exercise rooms, pool, therapy pools, library, cafe, gift shop, etc. Not at all like the common image one has of a "nursing home." Hell, I'd live there very happily!

Thank you all for the kind words. They mean a lot.

Rich

Taking a half day off and going up to Albuquerque for my grandson's second birthday. I hope I make it to see some great grand children; still trying to get a trip set up so my grandfather can see his great great grandson.

Wheel of life

Thomas

Rich Waugh

Sorry to hear about your Dad. As for smiths out west, consider visiting Grant Sarver in Tacoma. Yes, it's a drive but he'd make it memorable.

Rich's Dad

Rich, sorry to hear of the loss of your father. Loosing a parent is not fun, even harder when there's such a distance that makes visits difficult.

Snow and Stuff

We are recovering from about 10 inches of wet snow. Lost power from around 8 last night to early this afternoon.

I've been making tooling and hammers since taking Nathan's class. I'm expecting to make a video about making one soon. I'll post some pictures later. Got to get some handles in first.

Dave Hammer - We didn't get any snow again this time .hehehe
We have been very lucky lately.

snow videos misc.

Dave Hammer:

Were supposed to get a little snow tonight. Hope it isn't the 10 inches you got. Can't wait to see the next video you make. Number one videos you make.

Misc.

Spent the afternoon cleaning up the leather working tools and took some pictures. If I decide to sell them, I don't want to haul (tooling) around. I got a couple blacksmith budys that do leather work and one of them teaches leather classes. shouldn't have a problem geting rid of them if needed.-----I bought a axe at one of our blacksmith auctions. It had a leather cover with snap. Looks like I should keep some of the leather tooling to do this.

Theres a auction this saturday. Some leather sewing machines advertised. I always wanted one. "Nah" I Better not even go.-grin-

Added about 18" or a little more overnight here without the drifting. Heavy and wet at the base and still just light enough to drift and pack towards the top. They had the tractor and loader out to clear around the shops on the farm today, the pickup plow never stood a chance.

Dave Wells, Admirable restraint (grin).

Bernie, Thanks for the other book info. I'll pass it along to Tim and check it out myself too. Steve G

Annealing

After 10 years, finally need more vermiculite for the annealing bucket.

For some reason, I can't find small bags of vermiculite locally. Perlite is available in small bags, and Wiki implies it will do the same job. Anyone know? Or will perlite melt at too low a temperature?

Yucky in the People's Republic.

Wow

That' a bunch of snow Steve. How are your roofs doing. 18" of wet heavy is not good on low pitched roofs.
JIM

Rudy, Vermiculite used to mined in the US by W.R. Grace. They sorta covered up that the Libby mine that produced the vermiculite also contained Asbestos in the product. The town of Libby got pretty contaminated and the vermiculite shipped all over also contained at least some asbestos. Oddly when this all came out they shut down.
I think they were if not the only producer then the biggest in the US. Vermiculite got a bad name no matter where it came from and I suspect that most companies will refuse to handle it in fear of asbestos litigation.

snow high

SGensh

Steve, I wouldn't know what to do with 18 inches of snow. Last time I seen anything close to that was the blizard of 78.

Snow on roofs:
I don't even like having snow on the roof for weeks. In my case once under those circumstances, when the snow started melting, then freezing again, a ice dam built up near the gutters. When melting again ,water started flowing down the outside wall and inside the house.

Asbestos:
They had a bit on tv about the mine and town.

Little Bit of Snow

Luckily I didn't have to know what to do with it either. I just had to shovel a bit to get the car and truck out. The landlord takes care of the roads at the shop complex and they usually do a great job. I talked with a local guy today who does plowing as a side to his regular business. He said he worked fourteen hours straight plowing with this storm and made lots of extra money. I think he wants it to snow some more (grin). We never lost power here like Dave did so it really wasn't bad. Lot's of places get lots more pretty regularly and deal with it pretty well. No complaints here. Steve G

perlite

I have used perlite a few times when I needed to anneal a piece of hardened steel, it seemed to work ok.

Perlite, vermiculte,

What ever happened to True Path smithing?
A bucket of wood ash, and you are good to go, slowly.
CZ

If you have a little koawool you can use that instead. I have used a 2" thick blanket on each side that was a couple of inches larger than the stock in length and width with success.

Wood Ash

I've used vermiculite and wood ash and thought the wood ash did a better job of annealing.

vermiculite is available

You can google ULINE and type the word into their search box. They sell it for package packing.

AFAIK, it was only the one mine that had asbestos in it, but the product is having a hard time getting started again, which is a damn shame, since it was such great insulation.

Uline's prices are a bit high, but it does last forever the way we use it....Joe

vermiculite

Rudy - I can get an 18 qt. bag down the road for about $15 at a garden supply store.
If you want I could fill up one of the bigger flat rate box's and ship it to ya if you can't get it any other way.

Just got thru plowing the drive , not that it needed it , only had about 3½" but wanted to play a bit.hehheee

Every one around us is WAY above thier normal snow fall for the year , cept us :-) We should have had 42" by now and only have had 15" and thats fine with me.

Vermiculite

I can get vermiculite also. Problem, about 5 gallons and I need about 2 qts. Perlite comes in bags just about the right size.

I've used ash. Never again. Filthy, filthy, filthy process (although it DID work).

Any other smiths out your way that would split an order of vermiculite with you?

Weather station I was looking at said we got under 4" of precipitation last year TOTAL Oh well too little is easier to deal with than too much! We may get some this week. Wednesday's high is supposed to be about 40 degrees lower than today's.

I think I'm coming down with my wife's cold/flu/crud; may have to sit by the woodstove and mope.

Thomas

Brrrrrr and Hammers

I just learned more that I care to about heat pumps. The bearings in the fan motor on the outside unit went bad (I noticed that after I noticed that the little green light on my thermostat (that tells me my system is heating my home with electric coils) was on way two much. After figuring out the wiring diagram and verifying the fan was the problem, I found a replacement motor and installed it. Not a pleasant task in sub-freezing temps, especially with snow everywhere.

I posted some pictures of some tooling and hammers I have made since taking Nathan's hammer class. I still need to put handles in those I made for my grandsons, but I wanted to get the photos up this afternoon...

Fun, fun, fun. If you get a chance to take his class, I highly recommend it. The cost is about the same as buying one of his hammers and you make one under his supervision during the class. He is an outstanding instructor...

Dave Wells

Nice work in the Gallery.... I always LOVE your work....

daves hammers misc.

Dave Hammer:

Thanks.
Nice looking hammers and tooling you made. Your grandsons should be proud.

Misc.
I have been fighting swelling in my hand. Saturday while cuting firewood (locust) I got stuck several times. Sunday my hand was swelled and sore-er than heck. after diging a couple thorn tips out the hand got a little better, then soaked in epson salts that seamed to help some. The Mrs. did some research and I guess honey locust is the worst to get stuck with. If it don't get better tomorrow I'm going to clinic. I guess if poision is in joint area it can cause permanet damage. Luckly I already got my trade item made for Saturdays meeting.

We have been prepareing for the ice coming our way. Got fire wood in and extra containers of water, in case the power goes out. Just north of us is snow and blizard warnings.

Making lots of holes

My question is more along the lines of fabrication instead of blacksmithing (gasp!). I was making horse stalls for my sister last year. One of the most time consuming tasks was drilling holes for bars to pass through the square tubing and u channel. The holes are 1 1/16" to allow a 1" pipe to pass through. While the steel is only around 14 gauge thick I don't think my current floor stand drill press has the beef and can't got slow enough to really be doing this for prolonged times (cheapie Delta 3/4" hp). There are several hundred holes per stall. With my current press the bit will frequently catch making the drive belts slip so I that I have to turn off the drill, back it off and go at it again nursing the bit through. There has to be a better way. Since I will be making another 3 stalls this spring I have been pondering it and hope you guys might be able to give me some more ideas. Suggestions so far:

-Get a bigger drill press. Since other than this project I don't drill a lot of big wholes buying a new one seems a little cost prohibitive. A decent priced used one would be a nice addition to the shop but I could be cruising auctions for a while before one fits the bill.

-Plasma cutter and jig. I am told this option would make messy holes that would need a lot of cleaning. The cleaning might end up erasing any time I would have saved from the cutting. The plasma cutter would probably on whole be more useful for other projects than the drill press.

-Hole saw. While I don't have a lot of experience with them I have doubts of any hole saw standing up to that many cuts. If I could get a stall per hole saw I consider them a consumable but if I am tossing them after 20 holes it would add up pretty fast.

-Farm it out. Probably more expensive than my sister would like to spring for (she already had sticker shock at the cost of steel, wire, gas, door hardware, etc).

What do folks here think would be the most bang for my buck on this project?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Martin, Have you looked at annular cutters? These are sort of hole saws, but have fewer teeth and are made for sinking holes in structual steel. More costly than a bi-metal hole saw, but should sink way more holes.

I also suspect that after a few holes, you would be blowing holes with plasma that would be acceptable. Probably use a guide template and just pull the trigger and slide around the inside of the template.

If you have a good welding distributor, swing by and ask about your particulr application, they would probably be fine with demonstrating the rig and technique, and "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions!"

Martin's holes

You should build a simple jackshaft to reduce the RPM and increase the torque. A used , could be burned out doubble shaft motor makes an effective jackshaft. Use the same motor that is on it now. Shoot for a lowest speed of 200-300 RPM.

The anular cutter is probably the best way to go, but You may need to rig a support bushing to get enough rigididity.

If You use a hole saw, drill a 1/4" hole or two that intersect the saw kerf to allow the chips to escape. First drill all the small holes running the drill press at the right speed, 900-1200 RPM. then reduce for the hole saw.

Drill bit, hole saw or anular cutter, You need to get down to the proper RPM range, about 300- 400 RPM. Cutting oil or coolant will help.

If You go with a plasma, You may get better results & consumable life if You start the cut in a small drilled hole, 1/4" or something You can drill easily.
A template that drops over the tube or channel with the proper size hole to allow for the torch tip or a drag cup on the torch, and moved from hole to hole would make it go pretty fast.

If all the holes go through the web of channel, You could have them punched at an iron shop.

Holes

Martin,

I'm with Jeff on using some sort of annular cutter. Particularly if you can manage to set it up with a proper slug remover. They're generally used in magnetic based drills and have a built-in coolant feed and spring-loaded slugger, but one will work fine in a drill press. A good Lenox bimetal hole saw will also work well, probably doing a hundred or more holes before the teeth need touching up with a file (a relatively easy 5-minute job). With either the annular cutter or the hole saw you should definitely run a cutting lube/coolant. Doing so will triple the life of the cutter.

An annular cutter in that size will run you about $95-110 and the adapter to allow you to use it in your drill press will be another $50. You can try to grab it with the the chuck if you have a 3/4" chuck, but unless you have a very high quality chuck it won't hold it well - they have a short shank with two flats that is designed for the holder on a mag drill. You won't be able to sharpen an annular cutter yourself unless you have a machine tool grinder setup.

A good hole saw with a separate mandrel (like the Lenox) will cost you about twenty bucks and will be probably the better choice for you thin stock. YOu can sharpen it yourself with a triangular file just fine.

Rich

More on holes

Martin,

One other thought comes to mind since you're dealing with very thin stock. You could simply re-configure your twist drill bit to a spur point grind. Done correctly that profile will blaze through thin sheet like 14 gauge since it is cutting primarily at the circumference of the bit. Once again, you have to use a coolant lube or the bit will dull very quickly. You'll still probably have to re-sharpen it ever fifty holes or so, bu that only takes fifteen seconds on that size bit with a decent bench grinder and well-dressed wheel.

Rich

Martin's Hole's

Martin, Go with the annular cuter idea. Once you use one of them instead of a hole saw you will wonder why no body ever told you about them before. (It's because they seem expensive when you first buy one, by the way though they pay for themselves very quickly in time saved and accuracy.) The one problem you may have that the guys haven't mentioned is that they are generally set up for installation in a portable magnetic drill with a dedicated bit holding fixture or they require a 3/4" chuck or collet. You can get adapters that allow you to use them with a 1/2" chuck or a morse taper though from a machine supply house like MSC or others. Use lots of a coolant or lube and ALWAYS remove a slug if it gets caught in the cutter before you drill another hole. When you buy a cutter there will be no central point to index where it will cut. If you want such a thing you need to buy a matching point when you get the cutter. They are not standard from brand to brand so it's wise to stay with one brand of cutters unless you want to buy a few points too. I prefer to use mine mostly in the milling machine so I tend not to use the indicators much, they will not keep the cutter on a center punch in any case if your approach is less than square. Don't even think about using one of these cutters in a hand held drill. I once made a series of guard rails for a museum which required 1" diameter tubing to meet 1" diameter tubing at right angles- I used annular cutters to "cope" the pieces together by drilling a 1" diameter hole exactly on center into the crossing tube and driving the supporting tube into the hole. You couldn't do that with a hole saw or regular drill bit.

Dave and Dave, Nice work in the gallery both of you. Steve G

Hole cutters

martin:
I have used all the mentioned methods for cutting holes at different times and with different degree of success. A jig with a plasma cutter works well if you are going to weld the two together after passing the pipe through. If the amperage is set correctly, you will have a hole with negligible slag. Once you get the hang of it, it is by far the fastest. When the cutters first came out, we used a mister with them. Now, they are set up so a squirt of water and soluble oil into the cutter is sufficient. There is a learning curve to using them and You might ruin one or two before you get the hang of it. The most important things are be perfectly perpendicular to the material you are cutting. Start the hole slowly, and once you are cutting, you can put all the pressure you want on it. The material must be held solid so it doesn't chatter, or the bit will shatter. I think that you can get cutters for about $40 or so at your local welding supply. Good luck to you.

You can rent mag drills .

Holes

I'd hate doing it by any of the methods mentioned. Can you find someone with an ironworker set up for this? Punching is so much faster. Cheaper, too, unless your time is a freebee.

I suspect that punching thin wall tubing on an iron worker is a no go. You would have to internally support the tube and in a multibar corral post that seems to be pretty hard.

Holes

I good Lennox bimetal holesaw with replaceable blades can do wonders. I cut 36 holes 1 1/4" diameter in 10 ga plate with one saw once. The last hole was pretty hard because the saw was dull. I used mist cooling.

Snowing, nice fire in the wood stove, 4 antibiotics including the shot. Wife in Albuquerque taking car of our daughter and grandson who are also sick---as is she.

least it's not plague or far worse Hanta Virus!

Thomas serene in the knowledge that he's good to go with plague or TB right now!

There is a near epidemic in these parts of strep and flu at the same time running in the little kids, and then of course the adults get it.
I am starting to get over whatever kind of respiratory bug I had. Lungs are starting to clear and not hurt.
Heavy rain here, with an inch of snow supposed to come starting at 4am. Al;east the inch or two of rain was just rain. Only 20 miles or so north is the freeze line.

Illnesses

Hearing about near epidemics of strep and/or flu is the sort of thing that worries me right now. I have to spend a lot of hours on airplanes next week, breathing used air from God knows how many diseased people spewing germs all over the place. The last thing I need right now is a respiratory infection. Has me worried enough I'm seriously considering getting a gamma globulin shot just in case. And those damn things really smart! Better than catching something, though.

I sure hope everyone makes it through the storms okay.

Rich

Holes

An electrician's knockout punch ought to work on 14ga. Not sure it's the best option. Among other things, you'd have to reach inside the tubing somehow to set it up -- which might not even be possible. But I figured I'd mention it just in case.

Mike, Electrician's punches are best used by union electricians working for someone else (grin). The problem is the amount of time it takes to drill a pilot hole, set the punch and pull it through (assuming a wrench type unit rather than a hydraulic puller but slow in any case), and the most annoying part with anything over about sixtteen guage material- trying to get the deformed slug off the threaded pull shaft so you can do the next hole. While I've certainly made a lot of use of my Greenlee chassis punch set it's always the last resort, if I have a choice I shop drill or punch any holes I can. They are fine for a couple of holes or an unusual shape but get really old and expensive to use for multiple holes. Steve G

Storm

Before I hit post on the last message I meant to add that I hope all of you guys in the path of this nasty storm are OK and will continue to be as it moves along. We look to be on the right side of the heavy freezing rain line and should be fine if the forecasts hold up. I hope nobody is wthout power for too long if it goes out as expected in so many places. Steve G

Beautiful day in the Ozarks

Here is how I spent my day :-(

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SUp_ykU4p0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Weather

We were lucky... Only rain overnight, instead of the potential ice and snow they surely got North and West of us.... It's supposed to get into the 50's here today. I have to remember NOT to open the shop door... or everything will (almost) instantly be covered with condensation...

I hope most, if not all, of you fair as well as we have...

We still have at least half the snow we got a week ago still on the ground. They are forecasting snow for Saturday and Tuesday... I'm not sure Phil is going to be right about an early spring here.

Dave,send some of that 50 degree weather here to melt some of this 20 plus inches. Not supposed to get above freezing here all week, with a possibility of more snow over the weekend.

Well, back to pushing more snow, have to blade out the drifts from last night. We have 3/4 mile drive into our place, so that will keep me busy for a while again today. Then fire up the forge to make some replacement links for the tractor chains. Broke a few yesterday.

Martin tubing

How is the tubing being used . I built stalls for 15 years and don't recall ever using tube . It was always shapes from the steel supplier and I punched every thing on an iron worker.

Hole lot of help

Thanks for all the help folks.

I am intrigued by the annular cutter. My only concern with it is Rich's comments about sharpening. Is it possible to adequately sharpen them myself without being a machinist ninja? I can sharpen hand saws by hand with files and sharpen drill bits adequately by hand on the grinder (learned before getting a Drill Doctor) but the photos I saw of annular cutters look a little more complex. I live out a fair clip away from any industrial area that might have someone I could take them to for sharpening.

If there isn't a easy DIY for sharpening the annular cutters I will probably give the Lenox hole saw a shot. It looks like I can get them for abut $9 from the company I order bandsaw blades from. Since I have to order a couple new blades too it seems like a cheap enough experiment especially as I am fairly certain I can resharpen them easily enough with my saw files.

Bill, the parts of the frame that don't hold wood are made of 2" square tubing. Also the front panels and doors are almost all bars except the bottom 14" (to keep wood shaving mostly inside). The bars run through a piece of square tube about 48" off the ground to keep them from bending. I'll try to get a photo or two and post them to augment my poor description. Looking at all the stall designs out there I am not terribly surprised you never used square tube. I sort of have my hands tied on the design though as my sister wants them to match the 8 she already has.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions and thanks to Sparky for the venue.

Martin Pansch

If I had to drill 100's of holes in tubing, I'd be looking for a solid way to do it also. I doubt I would be satisfied using a harry homeowner circle bit. Those might be OK for a few holes, but not for several hundred. I would definitely look at an anular cutter, however you can use it. You might try using one in a drill press, but if you do, as it has been mentioned, you have to have a way to hold the tubing still.... like a vice that can be clamped to your drill press table. In absence of that capability, I would use a magnetic drill.

I'm not sure how many holes an anular cutter can drill before it needs to be sharpened... I'm no expert, but it's doubtful you can sharpen the anular cutters yourself. I would expect though, that you could get them sharpened by some company (like those that might sharpen end mills) you can find online....

How many holes the bit would cut before it needs sharpening would depend upon many factors, not the least of which would be the quality of the steel you are using. Any body with an opinion on this if the steel doesn't have hard spots?

I would make make a small metal table (slightly taller than the tubing)... that the mag drill gloms onto, with a slot under a small table that the tubing could slide into. Just center punch where the hole needs to be, slide the tubing into the slot, center the center punch mark under the mag drill and drill your hole....

I posted an illustration of how I might make the jig. It's just a simple metal table with a slot on the under side. You might also add some small fences on the top that hold the mag drill in position so it doesn't move when the magnetic current is not on.

Martin Pansch

If the tubing can't be held by hand while using this jig, add a clamp system (welded nuts over holes) for the tubing. Put legs on the table that allow you to easily get to tightening bolts (with a socket).

Martin Pansch

Marty,

I honestly think you'll be fine with the hole saws for what you're doing, and you'll be able to sharpen them yourself easily. Not so with the annular cutter, though it is a far superior cutting tool.

A couple of tricks to make the hole sawing go better and the saw last longer:
Use a good cutting fluid, and plenty of it. If you can't get anything else, a high-sulfur pipe threading oil will work. One of the water-miscible oil solutions is way better, though. Flood cooling is preferred, but spot cooling will be okay if you're very diligent. A cheapo $10 fountain pump will work for flood cooling as they're usually magnetic drive.
Pre-drill all the 1/4" pilot holes using a split-point bit, then go back and do the hole saw work. Remove the pilot bit from the hole saw and either turn it upside down or use a piece of 1/4" smooth drill rod in its place. That way the pilot bit isn't walking around gnawing out the plot hole while its supposed to be centering the saw. Greatly improves the life of the saw teeth, too.
The minute your hole sawing gets slow, stop and sharpen the thing before you overheat the tooth tips and soften them. Guess how I learned about that?

Best of luck with it!

Rich

I'm hoping the side effects of all the things I'm taking will hold off until the main effect takes care of things! But as I suspect that a virus is the root cause and the Dr loaded me up cause he doesn't want to see me back with secondary issues...

Trying to train the cat to lay on my back on the coughing muscles to help heat them up a bit. I think he's pretty well made it to every spot but those so far.

We only got 3-4", since my wife isn't here I snuck out and cleared the walk and took a nap, then split another log or two and took a nap.

My grandson is probably our vector with his daycare the pool.

Lets all get well and hit some hot iron!

Thomas

Annular cutters advice.

I use them all the time. They're very brittle and will shatter when least expected. Only two ways to use them: (1) in a mill where everything is rigidly clamped and the feed is very carefully controlled, and (2)in a magnetic drill press with the specialized collet bearing assembly. ANY shifting will probably cause breakage of the cutter. The mag drill needs about 1/2" thick and flat steel to stick properly. As the material being cut is nearly pierced be sure to be using a lot of lube because the disk cut out will jam inside the cutter and a dry disk is very difficult to remove without shattering the cutter. Remove the cutter from the collet to be best able to remove material inside the cutter. Annular cutters are expensive to buy but not terribly expensive to have resharpened at the factory. Just time consuming. A cutter should be good for 100 holes without resharpening, maybe more. A good aspect of annular cutters is no need for pilot holes. You can cut 1", 2", and 2.5" holes in about the same amount of time.

In a drill press the ONLY viable cutter is the hole saw type. Be wary of the mandrels sold by Lenox and all the others--they break off. Use of a 1/2" fine thread bolt with the head cut off works extremely well. Of course, then there is no centering bit like with the stock mandrel.

I am a fan of the Lennox bi-metal hole saw. We use them all the time in industry on thin stock.

Hole saw mandrels

Interesting that you should say that, John. I've never had a mandrel break in thousands of holes over the years. Now, I use the Lenox or Milwaukee mandrels that have the retractable indexing pins so there is no stress on the threaded portion in operation - I never use the straight screw-on mandrels. I also always use a pilot, usually the pilot pin I described earlier rather than a drill bit. That cuts chattering to an absolute minimum and everything lasts longer and works better for me that way. Your mileage may, as they say, vary considerably. :-)

BTW, one other way you can use an annular cutter is in a lathe. I'm in the process now of cutting a hell of a lot of tenons that way. Working fine so far, too. I'll report back on how well the cutter holds up. Long enough to do a couple hundred tenons, I sincerely hope. No place locally to get one sharpened. :-( I agree that a drill press would probably not be solid enough to work on anything but the smallest of annular cutters.

Rich

Rich

non smithin

Weather:

We got the ice that everybody else didn't. "Dave" Still we were lucky. wait till the ice starts melting off the power lines, and they begin balancing. Thats when we loose our power. Although we got about a foot of solid ice on the ground and driveway, I didn't loose any trees, just some big pine branches.-Although it did take me about a hour scrapeing ice off windows and around door of my truck, so I could start it up and help the process.-grin-

On the news last night they showed these teenagers ice skateing in there driveway and up and down the road in front, playing ice hockey.

Hole Saws

I certainly bow to the experience of Rich and Jeff in these matters...

We got light snow today with little to no accumulation, but very windy and cold.
Just loaded the outdoor burner, and i used the good red oak logs tonight:)

I share rich's experience with the pin type mandrels and have never broken one. I have used these to put 2" holes thru 1/4" plate using a drill press to drive. Now this is a '30s buffalo drill press and quite rigid compared to the big box modern drills. It also turned nice and slow. I used a sample aerosol can of cutting oil. Worked for the 8 or 10 holes, and the saw is still sharp.

Hole saws

I cope the ends of pipe with a Lenox hole saw, using a Bridgeport mill and holding the work in the vise. I don't use the standard arbor, I have an arbor made from a 5/8" fine thread precision bolt with the head cut off & with a jam nut. I hold this in a 5/8" collet.

This works extremely well, as the full diameter of the saw is never in contact with the tube, so it never binds on it's own chips.

I never tried to file a Lenox hole saw, figured they would be too hard, but We have ground them with some success.

Sandpiles frozen pipe ordeal

Howdy Chuck,
You mentioned that the guys helping Jimmy Dee were going to use some fittings, and I think what they were talking about were things called Shark Bite fittings. Handiest thing since pommels on saddles.
Google Shark Bite plumbing, and they are explained.
One of their virtues is that you dont need glue, for plastic, or heat, for copper, just some Scotch Brite to clean the pipe, and a piece of sandpaper to smooth the edge of the pipe. Push them on, and you are good to go.
Since this seems to be a yearly occurance, here is the best part. They are reusable. So, the piece of pipe that is split this year, and will probably get split next time it freezes hard, can be replaced in about five minutes.
They are a little pricey, but what you spend on purchase, you save in labor costs, if you are in to such calculations.
Wish they were around when I was keeping my fathers plumbing working. CZ

All those holes

I've never been a big fan of hole saws but I use them when needed. The two big problems with them are clearing the chips which want to ride around in the kerf you are creating and their tendancy to make an oversized and out of round hole. You can partially solve the chip problem using the method of smaller tangent holes as Dave Boyer mentioned and you can shim the pin type mandrels which Rich and Jeff mentioned using to eliminate the loose fit the pins often generate but you are still fairly unlikely to get an accurate quick hole with one. That doesn't mean you won't get a perfectly usable hole for most applications at a fairly decent cost in tooling and time especially if you will be welding at the hole. I make a decent amount of mounts for museum displays and they often involve tubular uprights coming out of flat base plates. With an annular cutter I can generate a very accurate hole very fast in thin or thick plate which allows me to press in a cold rolled rod or drawn over mandrel tube and weld the junction on the back side for an extremely clean connection. If you are using black pipe you can't really expect it to be truly round so an accurate hole of the same size as the nominal pipe diameter could actually be an assembly problem. For my uses I tend not to sharpen the cutters but to replace them since the diameter is often slightly reduced when they are sharpened. Prices for new cutters from some of the mail order houses are often similar to the cost of a good sharpening. I've never had one break or shatter in use though I've set them up in the mill to enter material at an angle and used them on my old Walker Turner 20" drill presses with a 3/4" chuck (not recommended though). I have had a couple dull out after cutting hundreds of holes but they have earned their keep by then. Different tools for different uses. Steve G

Weather

7 degrees above with 3 degrees below wind chill here this morning. Coldest it's been since 1990.

sunflower

Ice

DW,

A *foot* of ice? If that's not a typo, you'd better get that ark built before the next warm spell . . .

Mike B:

I fudged a little.-grin- I checked it today, 2 inches solid on the driveway.-----Gutters are frozen and the south sun today started melting the ice on the roof. Ice dams causing leaks inside our porch. Spent a few hours breaking ice around gutters and down spouts. Never thought I would be useing a siphon hose to remove what little melted water from gutters. Trying to prevent more problems when it gets above freezing.-----------I do believe a ark might come handy. I'm hopeing for a slow melt down.

DW, I hope you don't have too much damage from the ice dams. A little water where it's not supposed to be sure can be a big problem. Good Luck. Steve G

Ice

Thankfully, we didn't get much ice (although we did get some) from the storm last week (none this week, knock on wood)

The year I left the service (1972), we moved to St Louis. We lived there five years. The weather there was the most volitile of anywhere we have lived. In November (IIRC) we had an ice storm that was equal to what Dave Wells is talking about (2 inches of ice on everything). I grew up in North Dakota and experienced times when it never got above 30 below for two weeks, but I had never seen destruction from a storm as severe as that ice storm.

There were other storms during our stay in St Louis, like April 3rd, 1973 when I stood on the loading dock at 2nd and Arsenal (DMAC) and watched 2 inch hail take out 3/4ths of the windshields and back windows of the cars in the parking lot. Luckly, I only had dents on my new car, so it didn't fill up with hail like most of them.

St Louis had the worst seasonal weather of anywhere we have lived. It took about a nanosecond to get used to the low humidity and much more moderate weather when we moved to Albuquerque in 1977.

I pray the damages that many of you may have turns out to minimal....

shark bite

CAPTON ZAP--Howdy glad to hear from ya. I will look the bites up, might be what she needs.

chuck

DW Oldtrail

We didnt get ice here in Michigan but we did get 17" of the white stuff.

Ice

Dave, I lived in St. Louis from 72 to 74. I remember that ice storm! I was working at 15th and Washington in what is now the St. Louis Museum. I had a 1972 Chev Vega with studded tires and about a 250 lb. chunk of iron in the back. Was one of the few that made it to work in that ice!

Bernard Tappel

We lived out in Bridgeton. I don't think we went much of anywhere for about a week.

Shark Bite

I had a problem with a frost damaged outside faucet. The inside wall was behind a bookcase in the living room, and I didn't want to have to move that and cut into the sheet rock. I didn't want to sweat solder against the combustible exterior siding either. I was stumped. My friend brought a Shark-Bite fitting and it made a slick repair after I put an escutcheon plate on to cover the slightly enlarged hole in the siding. They have no rotational strength and you need to support the pipes.

Dave Hammer

Wow, we didn't live that far from you. We lived in St.Charles, but both of us worked downtown St. Louis. Had the I70 parking lot commute everyday.

- Bernie

I have used Shark Bite fittings, and run 185 degree hot water thru them from my outside woodburner. Factory original equipment. I love the ease of use, hate the high price:)

Feeling a bit better, might even have lucked out as a lot of places have been closed down due to the natural gas emergency in NM that is starting to affect electrical power. (My wife told me that if they lost power in Albuquerque she was going to bundle my daughter and grandson up and try to make it down here where we could do OK with no power.)

We sure are cleaning out the woodpile! Since I'm a tad better I am trying to split the big stuff to fit the stove and leave the little stuff for when my wife gets home.

Must be powerful cold around these parts as the snow's still here after several days of blinding sun. Sure helps the passive solar house out.

*One* sink, the kitchen on on the north wall has frozen up; probably the pipes under the slab on that northern edge have frozen. Sure hope they haven't busted!

Thomas

Forge day

I had a productive day at the club forge Thursday. It was very cold, but I did OK while working. I waited 'till the other guys had a fire built and the chimney was drawing good to avoid smoke. I reshaped a 2 lb double faced engineer's hammer to make a cross pein. I now have it finished ground but not yet handled. Since it was the first Thursday of the month, in the evening we had business meeting and a demo (on rose making). Sitting there watching the demo, I began to get cold and left early. The last two times I have gotten chilled I had lung/heart problems. This time I got warm enough soon enough to avoid problems.

Annular cutters sharpened at the factory are sharpend on the bottom edge--the annulus--and th diameter seems not to be affected.

The mandrels break where the shaft for the drill chuck meets the body of holder. It happens when cutting at an angle stresses the shaft. The drill bit hole through the shaft leaves very little meat. Using relative low torque and approaching stock flat allows the mandrels to do their thing. The mandrel could be beefed up with a larger diameter shaft for chucking, but it is easiest to do what Dave Boyer and I have done.

Of course, now that you've mentioned never having broken one in thousands of holes, the curse of tool user hubris might strike. :-)

I've never experienced more than 1/8" of ice (at least that wasn't mixed with sleet and junk). That was bad enough. If I looked out the window and saw 2", I think I'd call it a foot too!

Hubris

Yeah John, I've been a bit concerned that I might have cause myself some bad juju for the next time I use one of my hole saws. Fortunately I have several backups. :-)

Rich

ThomasP, A trick that may help you in the future on slab freeze up of pipes. If you can dig down 18" or 2', and place styrofoam insulation around the perimeter, the heat from the house will usually keep the pipes thawed, and the floor will also stay much warmer.
My down stairs, slab on grade is surronded by 2" of extruded styrofoam 2' down, and 1" under the slab. Of course I built mine for passive solar, and did it as I built.
But, a perimeter of foam would be very reasonable for the materials while probably a bit of work to do now.

non smithin

Icey:

Had another small leak. Drip drip, on peak of the roof the sun decided to melt a little of the ice. Temperature was around 18 degrees about noon. Funny how a little sun melts a little ice, drips a few minutes and stops.-----My son lives about 7 miles from me. New home 3 years old. Came home from work and the kitchen was soaked.------We still have ice on the trees, about 10 miles north east of us, the trees have no ice.--------Several years ago mother nature trimed all my trees, so this time her pickings were slimmer.

Harold Frost:

You got the same snow Chicago got.-----One of our new members recently made a pair of ice cleats. He seen them in a antique mall and thought it would be a good thing to make.-------------I got a small box of short pointy studs with threaded post on the end of them. I think there for snow mobiles tracks. Make good scribes, and now they make good ice cleats.-grin-

I've only fell down maybe 10 times in the last few days.

SSGensh:

Thanks Steve. I know theres a lot more folks around here, that is in worse shape than us.----We have a large attic, walk or crawl around and are able to visual the roof and place buckets here and there. Most can't do this. I guess thats a plus.-grin-

Styrofoam Insulation

Be sure to use the extruded product if it will be in ground contact. It does not absorb moisture, the expanded type [white bead board] does.

This might not be an issue where Thomas P lives...

cold temps

When the temps are getting real cold I leave the water dripping in every fawcet in an outer wall. I have styrofoam(30" square from 8" under the ground to floor) around the water pipe coming in under the house and have a heat tape on the pipe above ground and below floor.

I know some day I will have to dig up a busted pipe but I don't want to do it under the house.

chuck

Annular Cutter Info

Martin Pansch, et al.;

Earlier I said that for cutting numerous holes in your thinwall tubing and channel that my recommendation would be a hole saw due to the low cost and ease of sharpening it yourself. I'd like to amend that conclusion somewhat.

The hole saw is still cheaper by a large margin ($8 vs $80), but the sharpening issue is now less of a factor than I'd previously thought. Let me explain:

I have a job to make well over a hundred cabinet door and drawer pulls that entails making around two hundred 5/16" tenons on 1/2" square bar legs. Since the legs are so short (~3/4") and the fit-up between the legs and the handles must be very exact, I decided to try turning the tenons rather than forging them. Instead of using regular cutter in the lathe tool holder I tried using an annular cutter in the tail stock. Jim Fecteau said his 11/16" Jancy Slugger cutter left a center slug just a few thou over 5/16" so I ordered one to try. I also had to order a 1/2" drill mandrel for it since I only have a 1/2" chuck for the tail stock. Total cost for the two pieces was about $80 as I recall.

Yesterday I cut 75 of the tenons using the annular cutter. Since my lathe is old, used and cheap there is some chatter when initiating the cut, something that goes away with a bit more engagement but certainly doesn't help the cutter any. After 75 tenons I could tell that the cutter was dulling as the required feed pressure started to climb and the cutter was also starting to run pretty warm after each cut. I'm using manual drip oiling with sulfur-based cutting oil as that is all I can obtain locally. So, to cut to the chase; I decided to try to sharpen the cutter myself, by hand.

I used a fairly fine (~600 grit) diamond slip and dressed the cutter's teeth by eye. The cutter has four teeth, each of which has two flat facets. I carefully eye-matched the facet angle and gave each of the inner facets exactly twenty light strokes of the slip then did the same with the outer facets. I did not try to dress the under face of the facets since they're tricky to do due to being created by the spiral flutes. The results were very rewarding - the cutter now develops almost no heat when cutting and there is almost no smoke form the coolant/lubricant. Cutting speed is better by 30% given the same (perceived) feed pressure with the tail stock hand wheel.

The time involved to sharpen the cutter was an hour. That's comprised of six minutes chasing down my diamond slip, two minutes to clean my lighted magnifier, 45 minutes of working up the nerve to try this on the only cutter I have for the job, and seven minutes of actual sharpening time. (grin)

I would say, based on my experience, that an annular cutter might well be your best bet for doing those holes, Martin. They certianly cut faster than a hole saw, by far. Clamp the work to the drill press table with a DeStaCo-type toggle clamp or something else that is quick and positive and you should have no trouble with the cutter. With or without the centering pin. Based on how much chattering my cutter experienced in my sloppy lathe, I don't think the cutter is nearly as brittle as John Larson's remarks led me to believe it would be.

I a person used annular cutters a fair amount it wouldn't be that difficult to put together a sharpening jig to make hand honing of the cutter facets very accurate and easy. The facets are flat and access to them is simple and straightforward so not much can go wrong. If you live near a major city you could get them professionally re-ground if you screw on e up badly enough that simple honing won't do what needs to be done. Should that happen to me I can send the cutter off, but I don't have time for that on this job so I had to learn how to do it myself.

Any machinist will tell you that keeping a cutter perfectly sharp makes the work go much quicker and cleaner, and a couple minutes with a fine diamond slip has an almost immediate payback in time savings and cut quality.

Sorry I got so damn long-winded. :-)

RIch

New thermometer/pyrometer

Just received the new infrared pyrometer I ordered last week. What a dandy little item! The thing reads from about 50 below zero to just a frog hair over 3000 degrees Fahrenheit by infrared emissivity scanning and also has a Type K thermocouple rated from 60 below to 2500 F. It has an output port to a PC for temp logging and other functions, too. All that for under $200 with shipping. Amazing, really. Just the ticket for taking forge and foundry readings. I'm going to find this really useful for burner tuning and forge/foundry design work.

I got mine on Ebay - item #130480469813 is what I got if anyone wants to see all the particulars. Seems like a very high quality item for such a reasonable price.

Rich

Well running a fan under the kitchen sink freed up the problem---now to check once it warms up a bit to see if we have a hidden leak. I sure hope not as they want to run new pipes through the attic---a whole lot easier but the failure mode is a whole lot worse!

Traditionally you would stack some bales of hay around the base of the house if you were expecting trouble. Nowadays hay's so high it may not make economic sense to do so.

That section is in the passive solar part of the house with 6" walls, unfortunately the heat sink is a stabilized adobe wall down the middle so the living room is WARM with the 2 stories of windows and the woodstove but the kitchen on the other side of the wall runs cool---been thinking of installing a heat catcher and ducting it to the kitchen

gotta run, french toast with maple syrup is on the table---it's great to have my wife back home!

Thomas

Rich W.

Those are nice pyrometers. I bought a similar one a few months back.

rain by 6:00 P.M for sure!!!.

Well I have been standing out on the back porch in my Bikini Swin suit got my goggles and snorkle tube on and my best pair of Sunday flippers. And it rained a drop and don't look like it is going to for a while.

These weather forecasters are right spiffy.

chuck

Prove then post

AIN'T rained a drop.

grin

Sandpile

You should have worn SATURDAY flippers.

"New" machine

One of my friends who is a dentist recently gave me an old laboratory dental engine. The new owner of the practice told him to get rid of it as the belt had broken and replacements were not available. I found that the bearings in the motor were also loose. It was easy to make a new set of motor bushings. I expected problems with the belt. I found that I could get 50 ft. of 1/8" urethane belting and a belt-welding machine for less than 50 bucks. Before doing that I called the local dental supply company. The lady said no we don't list that in our print catalog anymore we can get you one for $9.15 postpaid.

I tried it out today. It was fun stringing out the belt over all those pulleys!
When I made the hammer head last Thursday I struck my touchmark off-center and one side of the mark made hardly any impression. Today I took the dental engine and a 1 mm spherical carbide bur and cut the impression to uniform depth. The handpiece is much easier to control than a Dremel Moto-tool. It came out well. I am now thinking of a lot of things I can use my "new" dental engine for.

John Odom - You always amaze me .
I might be comeing that way around March 8th and would like to stop and visit with you if I could.

John Fe

I would love to meet the famous maker of the more famous gate! Unfortunately I can't put people up for the night, But I would love to show you the Choo Choo Forge!

non smithin some smithin

weather up-date:
Yesterday we got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Snow on top of ice makes things dangerous. Had fun going to yesterdays monthly blacksmith meeting. Dispite the road conditions we had a good turn out. Had 8 trade items with different ways of making.

Misc.
Several people are having the same problems were having, ice dams causing leaking inside the houses. We don't have that much heavy ice and snow around these parts, so the roofing isn't done as good as way up north roofing.

More snow and cold weather in the forcast.

Thomas Powers:
was that a typo? "hay" ------Around here we use straw for different purposes, bedding, weather protection, back stop for target shooting, grass seeding protection. Straw lasts longer- hay attracts bugs and critters. We use hay for eating purposes (livestock). Hay would do in a pinch if thats all you have.

Nope not a typo, we don't grow grain crops out here so straw is quite scarce; but my nextdoor neighbor has 25 acres in alfalfa and I can probably scare up a bale of two that are not "horse quality" just for a rasptlesnake.

As for sprouting weeds; doesn't that take water? We were about 5" short last year according to the local weather spot had less than 4" precip *TOTAL*. Often you can't even get manure to compost---my neighbor's predecessor got to dumping the horse manure in a little valley in the desert, fill it up over the top in about 10 years and was still going strong. Then when my new neighbor moved in and had it laser leveled and flood irrigated suddenly the "valley" is coming back---but the alfalfa sure was green and tall over it...

Gonna start packing for my forging campout today; plan to load next Saturday and head west on Sunday and be on-site Monday morning blight and surley!

Sandpile; that mental image is going to trouble me for a LOOOOOONG Time!

Thomas

John Odem - Thankx, and I'll be dragin my lil camper with me any how.

Visit

We have camper space.

John Fe

Are you going to the LAMA Conference?

catchin' up

Glad you all survived the cold snap. Everybody around here froze solid in the water department and when the thaw came the place looked like water world with all the broken pipes. lovely sprays emitting from the well-heads making pretty little rainbows in the sunlight. Impromptu skating rinks in the yards. I drove around unscrewing the pressure switch lids and sticking ball points and popcicle sticks in between the contacts. Most of them won't be fixed for a few days because everybody wants to wait 'till we are sure it's over for the year. Neighbors getting cans and bottles of water from my well head then turning the switch back off because mine broke at just the right place to make it easy to fill a can. Hasn't been like this in the 11 years we have lived here. Well-house by next winter for sure!

On a more serious note, I saw my grandaughter, Leigha, that had been attacked a few months back this weekend and she is getting better. She had a lot of trouble for quite a while after the stage 2 concussion with short term memory, poor judgement and other issues. Grades took a nosedive, etc. Her brain would sort of misfire under stress. They say it may take as long as 18 months for her to come all the way back, if, indeed she will ever make it all the way back.

I couldn't relay too much info at the time because the woman who attacked her had not yet been charged and was a flight risk. It took quite a while to get her properly charged because the attacker was the daughter of a L.E.O. which carries a lot of weight locally. finally, the county charged her and she will have a choice of doing a few years in prison or copping to a lesser plea with 3 years probation and some other stuff. Probably a good thing it's not up to me or my daughter and her husband.

The only bright side is that I doubt Leigha will ever turn her back on anybody again who is obviously looking for trouble. The woman grabbed her hair from behind and beat her head into a tile counter, a tile wall, kicked her all over while she was out of it. Leigha learned her lesson. For Christmas, she got three knives and a can of mace from family and friends, including a rather large 1095 "J. Rollings" folder. It breaks my heart to have to train a perfect young Christian lady in the defensive use of a blade. We all know, it ain't really defense. It's just having some sort of a vote as to whether you or the other person dies. "Justifiable homicide" is only "justifiable" in the courts. Much harder to sell it to yourself.

At any rate, thank you all for your prayers for Leigha and her family. She is coming along well, and I believe your prayers have helped.....Joe

catchin' up

Glad you all survived the cold snap. Everybody around here froze solid in the water department and when the thaw came the place looked like water world with all the broken pipes. lovely sprays emitting from the well-heads making pretty little rainbows in the sunlight. Impromptu skating rinks in the yards. I drove around unscrewing the pressure switch lids and sticking ball points and popcicle sticks in between the contacts. Most of them won't be fixed for a few days because everybody wants to wait 'till we are sure it's over for the year. Neighbors getting cans and bottles of water from my well head then turning the switch back off because mine broke at just the right place to make it easy to fill a can. Hasn't been like this in the 11 years we have lived here. Well-house by next winter for sure!

On a more serious note, I saw my grandaughter, Leigha, that had been attacked a few months back this weekend and she is getting better. She had a lot of trouble for quite a while after the stage 2 concussion with short term memory, poor judgement and other issues. Grades took a nosedive, etc. Her brain would sort of misfire under stress. They say it may take as long as 18 months for her to come all the way back, if, indeed she will ever make it all the way back.

I couldn't relay too much info at the time because the woman who attacked her had not yet been charged and was a flight risk. It took quite a while to get her properly charged because the attacker was the daughter of a L.E.O. which carries a lot of weight locally. finally, the county charged her and she will have a choice of doing a few years in prison or copping to a lesser plea with 3 years probation and some other stuff. Probably a good thing it's not up to me or my daughter and her husband.

The only bright side is that I doubt Leigha will ever turn her back on anybody again who is obviously looking for trouble. The woman grabbed her hair from behind and beat her head into a tile counter, a tile wall, kicked her all over while she was out of it. Leigha learned her lesson. For Christmas, she got three knives and a can of mace from family and friends, including a rather large 1095 "J. Rollings" folder. It breaks my heart to have to train a perfect young Christian lady in the defensive use of a blade. We all know, it ain't really defense. It's just having some sort of a vote as to whether you or the other person dies. "Justifiable homicide" is only "justifiable" in the courts. Much harder to sell it to yourself.

At any rate, thank you all for your prayers for Leigha and her family. She is coming along well, and I believe your prayers have helped.....Joe

Joe R.

I glad to hear there is light.

Leigha

Glad for the recovery. From experience, I can say it takes a long time, and even if a high level of function is achieved, It still isn't ever quite the same.

Joe Rollings - Thankx for shareing the good/better news with us.

Dave Hammer - Yep I'm threathing to go to the confernce in Lafayette LA for no other good reason than to get some use outta my lil camper.hehehe You goin ?

John Fe

I was looking at it... I do want to go to an event in the South this year... Probably not that one though. I usually go to the CVBG meeting in March (same weekend).

You will enjoy visiting with John and seeing the Choo Choo Forge if you go though.

southern blacksmithing

John- You could take in the 15th annual Southern Blacksmithing Association Conference in Madison Ga. May 19 thru 21. SBAconference.com- great demonstrators Great camping area. Madison is a beautiful southern town.

Leigha news

JOE and I know you and JANET have been having a time of it. Glad to hear LEIGHA is making progress. I hope it continues to be a steady gain. I can just imagine how hard it was to not re-taliate.

I not very good at letting the due process run its course. Having a tendency to holler down someones windpipe and kicking dirt till they throw the first, is pretty good way to donate to their leisure time fund.

Sorry to hear the cold got all of you. I know of a lot of folks down south of here that put just enough dirt over the pipes to keep the lawn mower off of them.

Daughter re-placeed all of her pipes with new expandable pipe that is not supposed to break in a hard freeze.

chuck

Sorry Dave hammer- screen was not scrolled down- only saw John Fee's name- I know you have come to Dean Coffmans' (Big Blu) before- you might enjoy Madison- bring John Fee with you- lots of room Big grassy camping area- indoor rest rooms.

The SWABA Conference is Feb 19 & 20 in Las Cruces NM---can't get much further south without a passport!

I'd offer to put you up but I'll be camping in AZ at that time.

Joe I'd hate to mention this; but you might look into tapping y'alls phones or having a small personal tape recorder set up just in case someone tries to dissuade folks from their case.

Thomas

Ray Clontz

Are you going to be at Big Blu this year?

Big Blu meeting

Yes, we all look forward to Deans meeting, probably the best for NCABANA since Dean has such a large well equipped shop. Always great demonstrators. hope to see you there.

I think I'll go to the Big Blu meeting instead of the one in LA. since it's less than half way and will save a ton in gas money.
Where do I get info and registeration form and such ?

Big Blu meeting

John- just show up- no registration - no fee( ha ha) 3308 Frank Whisnant Rd Morganton NC - let me know if you need more information

Endless chore

I have been picking up, sorting and putting away fasteners today. I also heat-treated and handled the 2# hammer I made last Thursday. I think I will like it.

Rich Waugh

"Hearing about near epidemics of strep and/or flu is the sort of thing that worries me right now. I have to spend a lot of hours on airplanes next week, breathing used air from God knows how many diseased people spewing germs all over the place".

Honey this made me laugh.....

Kim, long time since we heard from you glad to see your post.
By the way, Rich has been sick and may still be delerious so don't take too much seriously:)

SOOO... tell us how our Kimmie has been.
Jeff from the very cold, icey and snowey midwest, who is now very ready for spring.

on the subject of master Rich Waugh

Jeff,

I was just picturing a sullen Mr. Waugh questioning himself as to wearing a respirator on the plane or not. This makes me laugh.

well good news is I have managed to change my email address, phone number and place of location. Thank you Freaky Stalker! He's not the only reason. to keep everyone updated I am no longer working as as smith for the dinosaur place. got sick, most you knew that. I now repair turbine blades for a company specializing in the Aero dept. currently working on RB211 engine. Its a great job and the guys are great. we had a huge fire that costs tens of millions in damages. Our main facility is down for repair and most likely will be able to move back in the spring. Fire started, gas feed it, smoke damaged everything. To put it this way, where the fire was we had

puter's gonna crash again.... write the rest in a bit

part 2

the entire machine shop and three heat treat furnaces. It was hot enough to melt the I beams. Soon as that happened I got rid of the city apartment etc and moved in with a friend on the chance we were going to get laid off. We are slowly getting back to normal working at satellite facilities. Tons of minutia, meh.

Ankle is all better and starting training for roller derby once again. Went to montreal, got a big tattoo on the arm. Taking scuba. causing shit...same old same old. so doing as well as to be expected....BOG

I forgot...

Oh and Rich....

I hope you never ever get sick. Love you too much. (shut up guys)

jobs

Kim Saliba:

First job I had when I got out of the air force, was in turbine blades dept. at a aircraft engine company. I ran a J&L machine. We aligned the blades to a scope we looked at,I believe there was two stylus runing on the blade (its been so long I can,t remember, One or two)) once aligned a open ended block was inserted, then the ends placed on block, then a matrix poured.ends then removed and Blade end then machined and then removed from block. Numbers then etched on each blade. 100 % x-rayed, etc. etc. Everything done under quality controll dept. except the machining.
Good luck on your new job, sorry about the fire.

Kimmie, Tattoo of Nathan? :)

DW believe it or not. We hand blend back to spec. Its been a long training process with those who have the eye. I still don't know how i got the job...must be cute or something. I enjoy it.

Jeff, I have not heard from that man at all! I hear from his mamma all the time.
Must be one of those dead beat husbands. So be on the look out for me please...

Tattoo? If you wanna see you either have to be on facebook or come to quad state.

Kim

Sorry my son is such a dead beat husband. Where did I go wrong? On the plus side he is taking care of his elderly mother!

MOM,
IF you ever need taking care of just say the word and I'll be there. Ill deal with Nathan if and when I get there. lol.

Kim

Thanks Canadian Daughter! I will remember that! You would have been so proud of him this afternoon and evening. He and a friend dug a grave for one of our former neighbors who died this past weekend. The temps here right now are zero but the wind chill is minus 20 or 30.

The lovely Miss Saliba

Good to see you back around Kim! I'm sitting in a motel room in Miami as I write this - fly on to Portland tomorrow if I can make it through Dallas. Supposed to be ice there tomorrow - just my luck. The memorial service isn't until Saturday so that won't be a problem, but I need to be there Friday to handle estate business. Should make it fine, though.

Got lucky on the flight from St Croix to Miami - the plane was only about half full for some reason. That means only half the virulent diseases floating in the recycled air. I just tried not to think about it. (grin) The last thing I need is respiratory infection on top of the whole collapsed lung, peumonia, etc thing in November. Taking lots of vitamins and echinnacea in the hope that will ward off any unpleasantness.

I plan to be at QUadState this year so I expect to see you there. Tattoo and all. In the meantime I'll just fantasize instead of looking on FB. More fun that way. (grin)

Rich

Um Rich...

you have a facebook account! you can see me daily and talk to me daily.

its the new media boys....

Facebook

Yeah, I know, I just can't seem to get to feeling all warm and fuzzy about FB somehow. Too much like scribbling on a bathroom wall, I guess.

Rich

Shucks I have a facebook account, the kids set me up, I think i remember how to open it:)

Rich

Eat GARLIC! It not only fights bugs, it keeps people from breathing in your face, 'cause you can breathe right back at them....Joe

Facebook

I use it. It helps me keep in touch with a lot of folks I would otherwise loose track of. I especially like to keep up with my former students. I also have fun exchanging messages with Kim.

This is by battery power from the laptop. We have a power outage.

Facebook

I agree with John. It does help me keep in touch with a lot of people--especially my daughter in New Jersey, the younger group of in-laws, and former students. It's fun to post a comment and see how many responses come as a result of it.

Facebook...this and that.

Facebook is a world of entertainment. I am sure there have been many nights where John Odom has shaken his head at my antics. Not to mention the larger networking base. Unlike here you have some sort of control on who views your information. So no creepy guy is sending you gifts because he got your address of ABANA's website. Jeff you do have facebook. But its also a great tool to see whats everyone up to. I don't have to wait for Quad State to see Ralphs photos, or if Kevin is still alive.(snicker) You get to see video's posted by others at different hammer ins. and you get to chat. Bev is always posting where my husbands at. Plus all the new people you meet through others. But the best part about facebook is facecreaping your ex and seeing the ugly cow he is married to now. lol

Joe R. garlic. hilarious.

Rich, I command you not to get sick on me.

Kim

I promise to give better updates on where your "husband" is. Right now he is back at the cemetery. This weekend he is teaching a class near St. Cloud, MN.

Mom when you get the chance I would love it if you could post some pictures of the cemetery. You guys talk about it so much, and my other hobby. I would love to see it please.

Tempering

Like most modern blacksmiths, I harden the metal and then temper it in a separate process using the oxide colors as my guide.

I keep hearing about doing it in one step. I just read an article that said the Japanese ALWAYS did it this way.

I always assumed you heated the metal and let it cool a bit and then quenched. I just realized (OK, so I'm slow, it took a few years) the oxide colors will be useless for this process.

SOoooo, does anyone know how it is done?

Rudy - You still use the colors with one heat harden/temper. To do say a chisel ; You heat up the working end about an inch-n-½ to 2"s till it's non magnetic. Then quench in oil about an inch dipping it up and down constanly about a ¼" to ½" up down up down soze you don't get a fracture line. Then pull it out and sand it real quick with some sand paper of an old grinding wheel till the end is shiny. The heated stock above you quench line will send heat to the thinner end that you hardened. Watch for the color you want to temper it to , to reach the cutting edge then quench the whole thing.
Hope that makes sence.

one step misc.

Rudy:

Another way to do one step hardeing and tempering, used on some tools,/ axes, etc. -Harden the working edge only, use a file across the edge. When file starts to bite, cool entire piece quickly.--------------------When useing a file for checking how hard something is, use a new file, or at least a good file. A worn file doesn't tell the whole story.-----------------------------In quality controll we had hardness files rc50, rc 55, rc 60 for doing quick checks. For positive checks we had rockwell machines and brinell machines.-Something that I miss haveing access to.

Weather:
8 degrees this morning. Spent the day useing my leather tools. Took a break and got a hair cut. This lady up the road opens her shop two days a week, and only charges $4. All the old farmers and passer bys stop there. Most gives her a tip, at least I do. $4 plus $4 tip.

SWABA Conf

Joe Rollings, you should try to make it to the SWABA conference at Las Cruces on Feb. 19th and 20th. Demonstrator both days will be Brent Bailey. I'll be there and I'd be honored to meet you if you could attend. Of course the same goes for anyone else on this forum. Check out the conf flyer at the SWABA website at www. swaba-abana-chapter.org. By the way one of our SWABA members Charlie Painter who is the Herpetologist for the state of NM will be in your neck of the woods working on the installation of a rattlesnake sculpture at the Chiricahua Desert Museum the later part of next week. The sculpture made by him and others is fabricated from steel with no blacksmithing element envolved. It's just the tail with rattlers but from the drawings he showed me it will be pretty nice. LXIV,

Bosque Farms

ALEX-- Good to see you on the forum. How are KAY and JOE? I get emails from KAY but she never says how they are doing. Do you ever see JERRY DURAN?

It was cool over here how bout y'all?

chuck

Snow

We got 3/4" last night, didn't stick on the roads. Even that little bit is enough to panic Chattanooga!

what to do.... suggestions or a mere vent

So here is the background. I ordered a product via a group buy two years ago. And for one thing or another never received the product from a retailer in GA. It was well past the 45 days that you are able to get your money back via paypal.

Sending emails. Now have gone on to publicly shame him on other forums and facebook. What is the standing now? Since I cannot seem to get his Atlanta address off the internet to send him a registered letter. He knows that I live in Canada so the small claims court ordeal would be a waste of time.

Suggestions?

Kim - Hi Kim, good to se ya again. May be contact the Better Bizness Bureal(sp). BBB in Atlanta ?
Or since you know folks all over this country and yours , have some of em pay this fellea a visit to have a talk with him or kick his ass or both ! :-)
May be your porduct is stalled on the border ?
I once sent a power hammer tape to Canada and it took like 3 or 4 months for th feller to get it. When he did get it there was a note saying they had opened it and viewd it. Maybe thats why it took so long cause the post office dudes were building a power hammer ?hehhee

John,

missed ya buddy. Seen some photos of you on facebook here and there. You look well. Nope. he never sent them. Remember when we built those hammers at Derek's? Mine went missing for a while too while they checked it out. Im pretty sure they just want to make sure they know what the hell it is.

besides. i have searched high and low for a correct address on this guy. and nothing is coming up.

Kim, we hosted an exchange student from Sri Lanka once and were friendly with his family ever after. When his sister got married they sent the movie film from the wedding off to be developed and put our address as the return address on the package since it came to the USA for development and this way we could see the wedding too.

That worked like a charm and we sent it back by post only to find that it had disappeared in transit. Upon investigation it turned out that their local postman had seen it was a movie from America and had assumed that it was pornographic and "borrowed" it only to find out it was the kid down the block getting married...

Good Luck, I know US/Canada customs can get weird at times from all the tales of woe on a sword forum too.

Thomas

Thomas,

I am speechless. How was that tracked and the in the same hell happened to the postal carrier? OMG.

Kim, I have been shipping stuff from internet sales and have shipped some to Canada. These were sharp veggie choppers and RR spike trowels. They cost like 3 times the post rate to anywhere in the US, but went right through.
I have sent 1 veggie chopper to aussie land and it is lost somewhere between the US and AU. US post says left the country, AU post says has not been received. The Rock, has been tracking and is pestering the AU Customs to see if they have it. Shipped it in November.

Sandpile

Was over at Joe's place a couple of days ago. He's doing well and as you might have guessed is working on some awesome knives. Can you believe Joe sold his first knife in 1953? I'm old but I was only 12 years old back then. Not to many current makers peddling cutting stuff that far back. You to have an invite to the SWABA conf at Las Cruces. You might thaw out down there. LXIV,

cruces

ALEX-- It is just far and too snakey to get 'Cruses this week-end or the next the wife has this one and Tanner has the next one.Grin Thanks anyway.

You must be a '41 model also.

chuck

Alex

I'm going to try and make it to Cruces for at least one day and maybe two. Never have made it before, but maybe this is my lucky year. Thanks for the invite!

The desert museum is right down the valley from me on the main road. Tell your guys if they need any tools or anything they didn't bring to give me a call. We are only minutes away. We are in the local phone book.....Joe

Kim, a lot of other country's mail systems are pretty water tight, leastways folks from them are absolutely horrified when I casually mention "lost" mail here in the USA.

They knew it had made it in the country: customs. The local Post office remembered getting it---not a lot of mail from America back then in Sri Lanka, so by process of elimination it must have been the carrier. Tasked with it he confessed and returned the movie. I suspect he got a thorough talking to and a big black mark on his permanent record. As I recall things ran like small towns used to: less LAW and more Social Pressure...

Thomas, I'll be back online around Feb 22

Mail

I buy the odd thing on epay, and one day during the holidays I went a bit nuts. anyway, this how it worked out. Roughly the same package size, the weight couldn't be much different as they were different models of the same item.

To Saskatchewan Canada
From the England the fastest shipping, second most expensive about 2.50 GBP.
From Montana USA Second fastest and cheapest under 2.50 USD
From Ontario Canada slowest and 10.70 CAD

Kim

It is a shame You got ripped off, hope You can recover Your money.

I got screwed over by a "fellow" asshole-blacksmith. JOHN CHRISTIANSEN,from Cape Cod. He advertised some fab & smithing gear on Anvilfire. Check was casehed, item never shipped. He doesn't answer His phone, eMail or registerd mail. As He is an individual, there is little I can do. His local cops told Me not to go there and settle it in person. The grief from the law is worse than loosing $520.

Shit Dave. Guess taking him to small claims court is out of the question? For some reason why does that name sound familiar. It doesn't seem right with our community being rather small that there are those who chose to be like this.

I posted a few messaged on facebook and some Halloween forums.stating he was a bad merchant and boy did that get his attention. At first he went on to tell everyone that all his orders were filled. Then when I posted proof of the transaction, he negated and all the sudden remembered me and that it was my fault for supplying a US address for them to be sent to. I kindly told him that wasn't what we had discussed and if he would please just return my monies. He apologized on facebook but he has not sent money yet. I am hoping that its resolved.

Kim's Bad Merchant

Kim, I have friends and former students in Atlanta who are lawyers. IF you sent me the full information, I might be able to get one of them to Rattle his chain pro-bono. I can't promise their services but there are several and I'm pretty sure one of them would do it. If he thought he was about to be sued he might cough up the money.

Kim

You might just roll out his phone number and exact email right here for all to enjoy and make use of....Joe

Kim

When some people are really ticked and don't expect to get their money nohow, sometimes they sell the claim to a local lawyer/collection.

Not much recovery in it, but some people seem to get satisfaction out of not rolling over and letting someone get away w it.

Kim

Yes, and sometimes they make a gift of it to a local motorcycle gang...Joe

Taking dirtbags to court

It is My understanding from friends who have tried, that when You win a case all You get is a legal judgment against the person, but that doesn't get You Your money, just a paper saying that legally You are owed the money. If They don't have it, You won't get it. This is the problem with taking an individule to court. You don't even get the satisfaction of dragging then behind Your car for a few miles...

What happen to the days you get to tar and feather someone? sigh....

meh. lesson learned. makes you bitter and think harder about sending your money to someone else.

On an off chance. Does anyone remember Jody Best being at Quadstate a few years back? I was wondering if anyone had any pictures of her demo or those bowls she was doing.

Roger D would you happen to have it?

Kim. My wife, The Rock is still a licensed Attorney, even though she is now a stay at home Mom, a much harder job. She was often amazed that people don't know that as Dave Boyer says the court gives you a legal right to collect, you still have to exercise that right. She would often call folks "Judgement proof" in the they had nothing to attach, lein or take.
Sorry you had the loss.

Worked on the new ram system for my junkyard hammer. Today I have to take the serious step of cutting the old one off and this will have the hammer down till I complete the rebuild. I currently have 13 trowles on hand and a couple of dozen choppers. Anybody want to guess what that first disableing cut to the power hammer will do to sales? :)

Jeff

I would guess it would affect delivery more than sales...

courts etc. non smithging

courts:

Here in my location, it costs about $60 to take someone to small claims court. Of course, as Dave Boyer said,doesn't mean you will get anything.---------But sometimes having something on record, shows others about the person or business. Thats if they do any reasearching.--------------My wife got tooken by a pet store owner that hasd her bird to sell. Never got any money or bird back. I wanted to spend the $60 , just to give the business a red mark. My wife said it wasn't worth it.------You got to watch bad mouthing people in public. A goverment employe north of us that lost there job, bad mouth another goverment employe where they worked, and got in trouble spreading rumors, even if they were true.

Weather:

Today it got to 48 degrees. Things are melting slowly. Drove my truck today for the first time in a couple weeks. Still seting on ice and couldn't go anywhere, had to chip ice from around wheel before I could get out.

Jody Best

Kim, Jody probably has a web site as a professional artist. She has been close to the Pittsburgh area smiths for many years and has demo'd at Touchstone.

New ram and slide welded on. 2 sets of dies fabed and welded and now in post weld heat, heat treat tomorrow. Need to add a brace of 2 and install mount for the safety hood, and ready to go. Slow cycled it over and that 60# ram is pretty smooth and hits hard even slow cycling. Once the safety hood is installed I will have to tune and find the sweet spot for clearance.

But I should be good to go before the end of Feb.

good news Jeff

............ Now get to work! (-:

Kim Time to move on?

Life has been busy. work has been so so........... Need balance!
JIM

orders

JEFF-- Just don't go to the mail box for a day or two. No hurry up orders and no bills no duns for charity.

Get the hammer up and then get the orders that are bound to be there.GRIN

chuck

Chuck, most of my orders come in by internet, and they are addressed to The Rock. How many of those do you think I duck for a few days? :)

Collecting (money not anvils)

I worked for the sheriff's office for 5 years a while back. There was a small section called "Civil." Essentially people could hire the deputies of Civil to go collect judgments for them. It nominally cost $50 at the time but they would tack that on to what they were collecting.

If there was no money to collect they could take property up to what equaled the amount owed. So if the person had no money and -no- property worth anything, as Jeff alluded to, then you would be out of luck. But if they owned anything worth anything Civil would take it.

I know one deputy who worked with me in the jail. He got bit by a guy he was trying to cut down from a bed sheet noose. The deputy sued the inmate. He didn't get money but 10 new PCs and some other computer stuff. Lots of other interesting stories from those guys.

Your counties' sheriff offices might not be as large or offer the same services but it may be worth checking into.

civils

I had a guy that would NOT pay me. He more or less told me to go whistle up a rope. He also said "Go ahead beat the hell out of me. I will own everything you have or will ever have". I patted him on the back with a lot of enthusiasim(sp) telling him I would see him around.

I went to the lawyer and laid it all out for him and he did his job we got the civil judgement on this turkey and I just waited for the right shot.

His Mom and Dad signed all the papers and leased an old shut down bar and this joker opened it up in his name but all the fixtures and notes were in his Moms name. He was really promoting this beer parlor. He had the better bands and the joint was getting pretty popular. THEN he decided what Dalhart needed was a one night Wet T-shirt contest.

Now I am not very straight laced but we have a lot in town that are and the rest have a pretty good sense of humor. I told this joker that we really did not want a wet-T-shirt contest here in our little cowtown what with all the church people seeing the advertisment on his sign. He laughed at us. telling us something about "This being the 20th century and for Gods sake chill out".

I got a hold of the Dallam County sheriff and had him pick up all the jokers beer one hour before he opened for the Contest night. People still laugh about that including the guy that owed me the money. I forget now if I got plumb even with him or not.

I did enjoy shutting the smug sucker down.

chuck

APJfmzXLHH

Very nice post, good luck! ;-)

non smithin

Sandpile:

Chuck, That sounds like something else.-----At one time a foreman in another department told me to do something. Not a big deal. But he said "Some day I might be your boss."-----------I try to tell my grandson the same thing in treating people. Pay Backs are hell.-grin-

Payback

Usually these deadbeats are their own worst enemy. Give 'em enough rope.......
Karma is a beautiful thing! Buck

collecting

Another trick for getting paid. My wife did a nursing job for a local cancer charity. Guy refused to pay her. She got a judgment in small claims court but did not have a clue where to go to get the money. She had a friend send a $5 donation to the charity. When the check cleared the name of his bank was on the check. Went in and got the money. The outfit went belly up a few months later.

monies owed to you

Do your collecting legal and through the proper channels. We can't not get away today with what we did forty years ago.

I had a big story written out and cleared it.

chuck

Lawyers

An Attorney is a person with a license to lie and steel. Never meet one that was an ethical person.

Harv

I'm sure there are bigots in all walks of life, but I don't think all lawyers are unethical. It only takes a few people in a group, to give a group a bad name. There have been some very good people on this board that were lawyers.

Daryl, We will have to agree to disagree. It seems you calling me a bigot is clearly mean spirited and shows you are unethical.

Harv

There are a lot of good people in this world and it is not right to paint any one group with the same brush. I don't think ones vocation if legal, makes you ethical or on unethical it is the person.

I did not mean to be mean spirited, but I found your statement unfair. To be fair to you I most likely should of used a more appropriate word, and for that you have my apology.

Daryl...It is not necessary to apologize to trolls

Lawyers

As a certified fire and explosion investigator, I've worked with many lawyers over many years. There are many fine, honest and competent people among them. There ARE some rats and shysters. They can't anymore be painted with one brush than can blacksmiths.

I am married to an attorney, my brother is an attorney, and I know them and maybe 50 more attorneys quite well. When someone says all are unethical, out of the blue, in a name not seen here before, I smell smoke and troll.

Don't feed the trolls.

Jeff, sounds like your smoking one for sure. If you married an attorney what does that say about your bias and character.

Looks like this is a site of trolls

I have not meet an honest lawyer. Certainly there are some. Our government is run by lawyers...enough said.

good lawyers ----elitist lawyers

It is a crying shame that a whole vocation is pretermined by some to be unethical and crooked. There are hundreds of thousands of good laywers the same as the good in every vocation.

--------------------------In my opinon--------------

The liberal elitist that are trying to ruin our country and tell us we don't have sense enough to know, not only, what we want but what we need, then you start getting the ones that give you the sour mouth.

These people are marginal in their abilities to function outside of their tight cliques. They have no contact or interchange with the adverage American person.

When we decided to have an organized law abiding country with judges and courts to settle the disputes. Lawyers became necessary to protect our civil rights if not, we go back to clubs and spears.

chuck

Soft anvil

I was using one of our anvils today, and noticed a distinct hollow (not a saddle) in the sweet spot. This anvil was resurfaced some years ago, but has not been super heavy used. After all, we are a bunch of talking amateurs - I will guess an hour use a day - maybe.

Does this imply the new surfacing material was too soft? Or someone has been abusing it when the rest of us aren't around? Too much cold work?

Would refilling and grinding flat be the easiest way to fix this? Or would a complete resurface be the way to go?

Thanx

Anvil refacing

Rudy,

99% of the time when an anvil is supposedly "re-faced" using welding rod the results are just what you are experiencing. So-called "hard-facing" rod is designed to be used in applications requiring high abrasion resistance primarily, not impact resistance. A real anvil face is tool steel forge welded to a wrought iron body and hardened as part of the welding process. Or it is a tool steel plate cast in place on a cast iron body as in the Fisher anvils, again hardened as part of the process of casting. Or the face is simply part of a cast steel anvil where the face is hardened after the anvil is cast. The important concept here is that the face is *hardened* - not simply a pile of welding rod that has been ground down to flat.

When an anvil face is covered with weld bead the welding process itself imparts so much heat to the face that it effectively draws any hardness that might have been there, resulting in a face that is often softer even than the original. Repairs to anvils should, therefore, be confined to filling minor cuts or deep dings and cleaning up badly chipped edges - not a full or even significant partial face replacement. That's my opinion, anyway.

Once the harm is done, as it sounds like it has been in your case, piling on more won't make it harder. You can fill the low spot but it will still be a soft place and get wallowed out again pretty soon. You would be better off to look for an anvil that hasn't been messed with and buy it.

Rich

Anvil repair

Rudy I had a 385lbs with two anvil repairs on it. while the void was repaired nicely after a while it needed to be repaired again.

WillSmith

oqT4iJ Hi! I'm just wondering if i can get in touch with you, since you have amazing content, and i'm thinking of running a couple co- projects! email me pls

John Odom

It's good to hear you are staying ahead of things...

Todays forging.

I rebuilt the riding sulky for my Gravely tractor today. I weigh 35 lbs more than when I built the sulky many years ago. The seat now went too low, with my current weight of 185 instead of 150 when I built it. Today I forged a helper spring for a stiffer and more comfortable riding position. The tractor maintainance and tune up was completed today as well. I am now ready to mow when the grass starts growing!

I didn't do any forging at all today but I spent most of the day working on gas forges. I've got six large double burner units on the benches almost done and I was mounting manifolds and fitting gas plumbing. The clamp bracket for the manifolds has a logo and the company info engraved in it. I'm lucky to have a machine shop here on the farm with CNC capabilities who can run those parts for me at a reasonable price but it was tough to get a good clean part what with too much detail in too little space. It worked out OK though in the end and an infill of paint in the engraved brass part looks pretty good. It's been a bit of a strugle getting this first group worked out. A minor change or improvement (hopefully) can result in lots of extra time spent. I added an extra layer of insulation (among other things) to these above what I've done for the Hothouse forges in the past and it's meant a little more work than I originally planned on. They should work out pretty well though, I hope. I've had some stock cut up ready for forging for a few days and it would be great to get to it, I'm looking forward to that soon.

Jeff, How's the new ram working out? Got the safety gear in place yet? More importantly- is it painted blue yet (grin?) Steve G

Steve G

Steve, I have only very slow cycled yet. I will be finishing the dies this weekend, and mounting the safety hood. This time the safety hood gets a more rigid mounting and most of the operational noise was the safety hood rattling and oil canning. The hood is 16ga, but had 2 big flat surfaces. I did run a stiffener diagonally across those a few months ago and realized big noise reduction.
I also need to rig some oil lines to allow the drip oil to the wear surfaces and a slot for the roller zerks. The hood pretty well covers the places needing lube, so I make it able to lube with the hood on.
And a safty guard gets OSHA yellow paint, but you knew that :)

Today

Used a rattle-can to paint the Gravely sulky. International Harvester Red.
Valspar implement paint from Tractor Supply.

Steve's new forges

The tag looks good, as I am sure the rest of it does too. Hope to see one in person at an upcoming PABA meeting.

Dave, Maybe I'll bring one out to Tim's though they are pretty heavy. I'm awful glad I have four of these sold already as they are working out to be pretty expensive to build so the retail price will be higher than I had hoped. I fired up five out of the six I'm doing in this run this evening to set the refractory coating. I'm actauly sold out of burners at the moment and have to assemble a few more in the next few days so I can finish the last furnace which will be my demo unit. I'll put a pic up of one of the units in progress, mostly done but it doesn't have the stock supports in place yet in the photo. Steve G

Ram is done, hood is on and I used the newly refurbished hammer today. BOY what a difference! With dies I am now at about 70#. I profiled some speciality dies for making cutting edges, shamelessly stollen from the video on the Kick Ass hammer site. I made veggie choppers today that were esentially done in 4 heats versus the 8/9 previously. I did one trowel and I had the blade done except for minor work like the touch mark in 3 heats. Before it was maybe 8/10.
I profiled by hand grinding, now to better match them by that age old blue and remove the hi-spots to get them perfect for me.
Soon as The Rock resizes the photo's for me I will post some photos of the ram.

Photo's are up at Farwest forge as I can't seem to get them up here.

Kim

www.google.com, is a great place to look for anyone.

Jody Best

www.touchstonecrafts.org/Jody Best

Hope this helped.

Kim

Google "Jody Best blacksmith"

Spectrometry

I seem to remember someone on this site mentioning they had worked in spectrometry for a while.

Much to my surprise, I have been unable to find a source (web or local university library) that describes the various types AND WHAT THEY CAN BE USED FOR. I found an entire book in CSUS library that gave the theory of electromagnetic spectroscopy and never once mentioned the practical differences between: flame, spark, plasma, reflecting, absorption, etc.

Anyway, I have a chance to pick up an absorption spectrometer. Still works, but the lab has better, now. It as used for biochemical analysis, BUT, what I have not been able to find out, is could it analyse a metal sample if the sample was dissolved in an acid? Or, is this type only good for molecular bonds and not elemental?

Anyway, the price is right (haul it away), but the original user is only a technician and only used it for bio as per the instructions (yes, the instructions are included, but say nothing in sample prep about WHAT can be a sample).

I know this kind of info is out there 'cause I remember reading a popular scientific article about 50 years ago. Of course I can't remember the mag it was in.

Rain in the Peoples' Republic.

Kim,

You wear out your anvil not because it was repaired, but the fact you are a real Blacksmith. I doubt anyone else here will ever wear one out.

Spectrometry

Most absorption spectrophotometers are NOT suitable for metals analysis. Atomic Absorption Spectrophotometers can be used but are expensive to set up for metals because they need an expensive lamp for each element.

Spectrometry

John,

Are you the spectrometry expert I vaguely remember?

If so, can you recommend a book (or even search topic) that will answer my questions.

I would like to analyze steel samples (roughly). The local labs do it for $40 per test. I know it is possible to set up a (reasonably) simple spark spectrometer, but was hoping there might be an even easier way as long as great accuracy is not required.

A friend suggested a combination of electro phoresis and electro plating. Dissolve sample at one end of long pipe filled w sand (or something similar)and weigh the change in the receiving electrode as the various elements pass through the "column". Since the number of alloying elements would probably be fairly short, this might work in theory. However, I'm not interested in trying to reinvent something some other amateur has already done. I just can't seem to relocate any of the articles I read when I was a teenager and read EVERYTHING popular/amateur technical.

I have found a book at the CSUS library, (all of three pages useful to me), but it involves some pretty complicated chemical work.

Any suggestions?

Spectrometry

I don't know if I an the one you remember, but I used to design and test spectrometers for the iron and steel industry.

Carbon is the hardest element to do. No good method without very expensive equipment or slow tedious and not cheap combustion train.

Colorimetric or spectrophotometric methods, using an absorption spectrophotometer, do exist for many of the metals. These methods all involve dissolving the sample in acid which can be a slow time consuming process, and reaction of a known portion of the resulting solution with a color developing agent followed by measurement of the color on the spectrophotometer. To do thios one needs an analytical balance and volumetric glassware as well as the various chemicals. You also need standards for each element of interest. Setting up would not be cheap, even if the spectrophotometer was free.

Forty bucks is a good price!

Various Atomic emission systems are better for metals, but all require standards, and some require a lot of sample preparation as well.

There were once some emission spectrophotometers on the market that were designed for junkyards and were slick. The company went bust, though.

Spectrophotometry

Spark units are atomic emission. There are various ways of recording the data from photographically to electronically. I don't know the current market. They also require standards of known composition.

Survived Estrella, though there was a while while I was headed toward the Continental divide and the snow started sticking to the road that I was a bit doubtful. Only other vehicles on the road were Semi's taking this "back route" for some reason or other.

I persevered and finall drove out of it just before Pie Town and had stars all the downhill to home.

Thomas

Good to see you made it home safe and well Thomas, It didn't sound like you were doing too great when you left for your adventure. Steve G

non smithin

Went car shoping yesterday. Something I dread.-------------Now a donut spare tire is a extra. Standard equipment is a can of inflator and a can of sealant. At least for the brand I was looking at.

Got back yesterday from a western Caribean cruise. Had a good time but is always good to get home too. Went from 82º yesterday (Miami)to 8º this morning.(home) Had 10" of snow to snow blow here too....

A last word about sueing some one in samall claims cort. If they are working you can garinshee thier wages IF they ain't already being garinsheed by some one else they ripped off, then you hafta wait in line to get yours.
Also if they do straighten up and get a good job or marry some one with good credit/job and they try to buy a house the morgage company will see there is a judgment on em and they will hafta pay you off before they can secure a loan :-)

dw - what kinda car ?

While in Beleze we took a long ride to where we zip lined and I was talking to the driver. I asked if there was alot of crime and he said not too much, but I noticed every window even on 2'nd story buildings had bars and grates on em..
I also seen alot of pretty nice gates and asked him if there were any blacksmiths around ? He said they're all dead. Only welders make gate now :-(

Being flat on my back sick for a week and then dragging to work the week before my trip I wasn't too sure how things would go.

Today was my first day back at work after my campout and "vigorous yoga" day and I'd say I finished recovering and got a lot of exercise while camping!

Thomas

non smithin

John:

Lower end Chevys. Don't know about the upper ends. A spare (donut) costs $100 extra.-----------I don't like the idea of having cans to rely on when out. Me and spray cans never get along. They either loose there charge or I end up breaking the spray nozel.-------------------next cruise, go to Alaska and you won't notice the change in weather when you get home.-grin-

Dave H

Nice hat tree.

I finished some hats today I had forged a while back. Decided to take them to Dan Boone's Pasture Party for IITH (along with that big key fob and skeleton key I made a while back). I forged a hat tree for them... Post a couple pictures (thanks Dave Boyer)

My son Richard and his two sons (Devon and Owen) should be there (plus one more friend of the family.

Looking forward to it a lot. Hope to see many of you there.

Beleze

J Fee Sounds like a good oppertunity for you to move and set up shop in Beleze. You are retired why not take the plung?

Mike B

I am interested in playing with DC motors also. Would you provide a diagram, specific part names (and product numbers) and sources to duplicate the DC controller you made?

Hat Tree

Hi Dave,

I enjoyed looking at your new hat tree, very creative. Thank you also for posting a picture of it fully in bloom. If something happens to the blooms, will it bloom again this spring?

Bob Haverstock

Petar - No Thankx to working in Beleze. I think about 99.9% of the people couldn't afford to pay for the work. Think I'll stay here till they throw me out.hehehe

MMMMAAAAABBBBBEEEEEEEEE

Hi to Lilly

Dave; About a week ago Ellen out in AZ was showing me the hat she got from you when she traveled east!

I think a Saguaro cactus would make a nice hat stand; I've seen some made from the reeded steels used for carving knives...

Thomas

Thomas Powers

Glad you had a good trip... Have you looked in the photo gallery today?

Yes; I saw the one you made and was just thinking of variants. Alex has been working on a fire hat as a variation on the cowboy hat.

Thomas

Dave Hammer and Thomas

Dave, great job on the hat tree, really shows the hats off well. Thomas, good to see you got back from Arizona in one piece. Sounds like the trip was eventful, some good and some not so good. By the way the fire hat is still laying on the work bench not yet finished. Posted a couple of photos of a firemans axe that was presented to me at my retirement party for 24 years in the volunteer fire service. The axe was used on one of our trucks for many years. The chief had it done up by a local artist. I'm honored to have it. LXIV,

Dave,

For everyone else's benefit, I posted across the street about how I was controlling the DC treadmill motor I've set up to run my mini lathe.

The bridge rectifier I used is #DIO1002 from BG Micro. Any bridge rectifier with voltage and amperage ratings higher than the motor will work. (This specific one is rated at 600V and 25A).

The router speed controller is Harbor Freight #43060. I think it's the only one they sell.

Hooking it up really is dead simple. Not all the terminals on the bridge rectifier are marked, but the positive terminal is. The positive lead from the motor goes there. The negative lead goes to the terminal *diagonally opposite* the positive (the bridge rectifier is square, so it's obvious which this is).

The AC input goes to the remaining two terminals on the bridge rectifier (also opposite each other). I just took an old power cord and connected it up -- it doesn't matter which lead goes to which terminal (but keep the ground, if any, separate of course).

Plug the AC cord you've connected to the bridge rectifier into the outlet on the router controller, plug the power cord from the controller into the wall, and you're done.

Happy Birthday Tom C.

Heard from the grape vine it' your B day!

Alex Ivey, That's a very nice present they made for you. It certainly shows how much your years of service were appreciated by those you worked with and for. You obviously earned the respect of your peers and it's great that they could show it with a token you'll treasure.

Dave Hammer and everybody else heading that way, Have fun at Dan Boone's wish I could get there again but it's not going to happen this year. Did you test that hoist yet Dave?

Fe, Didn't you get enough of boats in the Navy? Or did you spend all your time in the brig then? (grin) Maybe they are feeding you better on these cruises.

DW, God luck on the car search. It's always best to do when you don't really have to but surely never a whole lot of fun. Are you looking at anything but the Chevy's? It seems like there are a lot of choices available in smaller cars these days and even import nameplates are often built here. Me, I'm still buying used and hopefully won't be in the market for a long time. My Subaru only has about 185 thousand on it so it should still be good for a few more years. Steve G

Steve G.

I should have, but I just haven't gotten to it yet. The most important thing was to get the information. I have no doubt it will work.

Mike B.

THANKS!

congrats

ALEX--Congrats on the 25 year award--wonderful axe--. Glad you hung in there, that is a very needy job and much appreciated by your citizens.

TOM C. Done it again. Thats great Just keep the birthdays up and everything will fine.

chuck

gallery misc.

S Gensh:
Got the car today. Glad thats over. It was a Chevy, I retired from a division of G.M. so I help to keep retirement check coming in. --------My friend, the country musician that played for Hawk Shaw, was a Merceds Ben mechanic for a long time, in Chicago and California. Any way he drove a Sabaru and swore by them.

Dave Hammer:

Neat idea the hat tree. Good job as always.------------One of our blacksmith members worked for Diamond Chain. They used all sorts of stock. One small size stock had many grooves down the length of the bars. This stuff really looked neat when twisted and formed. It made some nice looking cactus. Your hat tree reminded me of them, thinking of catus.

Alex Ivey:
Thanks for your volunteer fire service.---We have a couple full time firemen that are blacksmithing in our clubs. And I'm sure there are several volunteers also. Out where I live, almost everyone has served one time or another.

Everyone that volunteers and serves the comunity or country deserves thanks.

spectrometry, etc.

Rudy, have you checked into the new XRF handheld zappers? A lot of scrappers use them these days. They're not as accurate as a lab test, but they'll give you a ballpark figure.

Dave H., nice hat tree! I have one of yours sitting atop the computer here beside me as I type this.

Congratulations Alex! That's a span of time for a VFD!

I've had a couple of vehicles I wanted to use an axe on myself...someone once pointed out that my little trucks typically have been equipped with duct tape, large plastic bags, a large hacksaw---24-30", a hatchet, a shovel and of course rope; might raise an eyebrow if I was ever searched...and of course "are you on drugs?" Gets a "Yes, every 3 minutes!" for my insulin pump...

Thomas

Spectrometry

Typical Suppliers include Thermo-Fisher, Panalytical, Spectro, Rigaku, and Leco. Leco supplies a glow discharge spectrometer that's on the low end for price - about $60,000. A new sequential x-ray spectrometer from Panalytical will run you about $300,000. A new optical emission from Thermo or Panalytical will run you about $100,000. Standards are extra - figure about $400 for each one you buy. Some are more some less - depends on the alloy. You'll need more than 1 to set up analytical curves on the spectrometer. A new Leco carbon sulfur tester with auto loader will be about $66,000. The other options are used spectrometers that have been retrofitted/upgraded - a local company Electrical Engineered Products upgraded an old 3460 ARL (Thermo) spectrometer for us. Not certain of the price, but less than when new. It's been a work horse giving us minimal problems.

One advantage of optical emission - you can get carbon and sulfur numbers that are reasonably accurate. One disadvantage, depending on the arc source you may have difficulties analyzing more highly alloyed products. We can't use the 3460 for really high alloy stainless, where iron is down to about 50% of the elements present.

I'm currently a user, so John knows a whole lot more about building them than I do.

XRF Spectrometers

XRF Spectrometers are really nice, and are widely used in the scrap industry. BUT depending on the state you are in may require licensing and here in TN, the minimum cost is $200 per year, just for renewal and a lot of paperwork and record keeping. I understand that some states have much relaxed requirements.

The ARL 3460 can be used for stainless, but not both high alloy and mild steel on the same set-up. C changing set-ups is a major job, requiring. a factory tech and special tools.

Spectrometry

Ahh, I'm looking for something on a more limited budget sort of like:

www.science-project(there's a dot here)com/_members/science-projects/1996/06/1996-06-fs.html

Where some brilliant soul duplicates the finest instruments of man w a beer can.

Thanks everyone, for the nice comments about the hat tree. It was fun to make....

ARL 3460

John, We've got an aftermarket software package on the ARL - 5 general curves on it for iron - low alloy, tool, 300 series stainless, 400 series stainless, and PH grades of stainless. We type standardize on the alloy being made that day - 410 stainless, D2 tool, 347 stainless. The only problem is when they want to make both a 304 and a 316 - same base analysis channel and widely different chems. We scramble making the type standardization change. Hasn't happened much recently as that part of the business is intentionally being run slow because we took some of the hourly workers and moved them over to the powder part of the business to meet production demands there.

ARL 3460

That software package sounds good. It was just the 3100 in my time, and all analog. The optics is basically the same today but nothing is the same in electronics!

Looking forward to seeing some of you tomorrow at the Pasture Party.

Peyton

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спасибо большое было интересно прочитать

Boones' Pasture Party

Louise & I will be there.

John Fee, Henry Offermann, Dave Hammer & I dined at Chez Red Recluse last night. Grilled steak, baked potato & corn on the cob was the menu. A discussion on current events ensued.

Tom C

Tom C

Happy belated birthday, my friend! Enjoy Boone's, wish I could be there but I'm traveled-out for the moment. :-)

I can just imagine the discussions you guys all had at Roger's. Sorry I missed that, it's always fun to talk with all of you. The food sounds good, too! Any chance you'll talk Roger into making it to Quadstates this year?

F.D.

Congrats on the 25 years Alex. Well done Sir.

I did 15 years in our local FD until my knees got so beat up it was time to give it to the young bucks.

24 years for Alex. I stand corrected. ;)

misc. blacksmithing

Misc.

Went to a satelite meeting today. Had a good turn out and several at the forge doing something. My budy finished his trade item for the other club we belong to. Its a 5 link chain made from 3/8 stock. I made one link to show my budy how I scarf my chain. Then explained how the resident blacksmith at Conner Prairee checks his welds. After welding he takes a good heat and puts the link in the vise with weld on top. Then twists the link around by placing the bar through and twisting.--- I did this and the weld came apart. Then I straightened it back up, re welded and twisted it again. This time it didn't come apart. While in a figure eight, one guy says "why not flatten it" Didn't look that bad after I did this.(I guess I could have said that I just made two links from one link.-grin---------While I only twisted the link 360 degrees, the resident, keeps twisting untill the parent stock comes apart. I always joke with him "Nathan, how do you make a chain if you twist each link, checking the welds?"

Thats my story, and I'm sticking by it.-grin-

Boone's

It was a GREAT day at Boone's Pasture Party. Close to 400 folks were there. I brought a few trinkets home (tailgating) to fix and/or work with. Too many names and friends to mention were there.

Talking Roger into to going to Quad States isn't the problem. Convincing him to still go when it gets close is a littl more difficult.

A good friend of mine won the big key fob and skeleton key. A six year old won the hat tree and hats. Good times were had by all.

More Boone's

Forgot to mention... As usual, IITH was great. There was a lot of very nice hand forged work..... and hundreds of other items also. I came away with about 12 pounds of 7/8th 5160 round bar (will be great for making some light tongs)... Food was great, community was better. That gathering never fails to amaze me. Lots of fun. My son (Richard) and his youngest son (Owen) and a friend of Owen's came also. I haven't been very vigilant about taking pictures lately, and didn't get any this time either. Hopefully, someone else will post some. Come next year.... Dan and Judy did their usual magic.

Had a great time in Virgina as useal. Henry and I went to Dave Hammers , Tom C's , Roger Smith's , Demseys used machinery , the scrap yard , Buzz-n-Neds famous BBQ and Boones.
Roger cooked up a mess of steaks and fixins on his huge smoker/grill with his secret sause. It was some good, I even had 2 steaks if you can believe it :-)

There was more people at Boones than ever before, some where around 370. Dan said it started with 30 of his friends and can't believe how it's grown. He seemed to have a good time but I'm sure it's very exhausting for him and his family. EVERY one wants to talk to him and it looks like he doesn't get too much time to him self the entire day. What a wonderful family.
This trip is one of the high lights of the year for me and Henry and we always have a good time.

"I even had 2 steaks if you can believe it :-)"

John how did they manage to cuff you? Seems like it would take a pretty good dog-pile to keep you down to just 2!

Thomas

Thomas Powers - Rogers gun helped :-)

I was wondering if it would have been a "Gated Community" project type of thing...

Thomas

The picture of irony

Imagine John Fee kept away from food by His own gate...

In that case I can just picture Mr Fee walking up to his gate and taking an odd shaped key out of his cummerbund, sticking it into what looks like solid steel on the *hinge* side of the gate. Turning it and having the gate open on that side...

Thomas

I don't think any gate, not even the great Fe gate could hold John back if he really wanted another bite.
For that matter I suspect the same applies to myself, and I know my Juggle Guy could just inhale hard and the food would just come to him:)

toad licker

"Cluck Ol' Hen"

"I've met smarter sandwiches"

Second hand steel

Is there a way to rework salvaged steel so you can trust it to not have micro cracks, etc.

Rain in the Peoples' Republic.

Re-working steel

About the only thing you can do is to have it re-melted. You could magnaflux it or dye check it, but that's still no absolute guarantee.

Micro-cracked steel is easily reworked into first quality steel at mini-mills every day all over the world. You most easily gain this service by placing cracked steel in the scrap and it ends up at a mini-mill, and pretty soon its ready to pickup at a steel warehouse somewhere:)
Sorry, couldn't resist.

What a tard

Perhaps; but he's been a good friend for many years to a lot of us here and many of us have met him in person and can attest to him being a nice guy.

A cracked sense of whimsy is quite common in these parts of the interwebs; sometimes I can almost hear the banjo's...wait a minute that's my cousin's website leaking through again. Sorry about that!

Thomas

Jimmy

Hush son your letting the stink out of your mouth. Decayed teeth rotten gums skeleton bones dead brain. You really need to rethink this meth deal.

What?

My original post was to over write Jimmy w/o acknowledging his existence.

Sooooo, just a suggestion, Jimmy does not exist.

Who?

Thomas

ThomasP, Got the rollups mounted?

Where?

Who is on First.

You just beat me to that Jeff.

I'm glad to hear Boones's Pasture Party was great and many of you got to enjoy it. I'd like to make it back to one of those again. This year I was loading up for a delivery down to the John C Campbell folk school on Saturday and driving down on Sunday. I was back in Rosemont Tuesday afternoon after a 1551 mile round trip with a slightly sore butt from too much sitting in the car. Their new Clay Spencer blacksmith shop looks terrific and seems really well laid out. I wish I had a little more time there to poke around the other parts of the campus and the surrounding area. It's beautiful in those hills. Hopefully I'll get to spend a little more time there the next time I make that drive. Steve G

Not yet just got the crossbar for the front door recently and have had busy weekends since then---had to move my daughter.

I hope to mount the crossbar and at least one door next weekend when the "crew" is out to help build the bloomery---monolithic biavicide so to speak...haven't shared that with them yet.

This weekend I'm teaching for MONEY! Probably need it for piece parts for the doors, locks , etc.

Thomas

John 0 - grinder

I saw Your post on Far West [I am not registered there, but ocasionally read it].
Last summer I asked here about belt grinder speeds. The general opinion seemed to be that a 5"-6" drive wheel worked prety well on steel with a 3450 RPM motor. This was taking into account stock removal rate & belt life. I built a 2x48 that is direct drive off a 1750 RPM motor, I used a 10" drive wheel and a 1 HP motor, about 4600-4700 FPM depending on load. This works fine. I guess if I pushed the work in hard enough I could bog it down, but the belt might go first. Could it go faster? sure it could, , but if I have to remove a whole lot of metal, I am likely to use a saw.

The 6x48 belt sander in the wood shop goes a WHOLE lot slower, maybe 1/3 the FPM.

I read of guys building belt grinders with really big motors, keep in mind the somewhat limited power You can transmit with a 1/2" belt on smaller diameter pulleys, and don't get carried away.

I plan to build a 2x72 sometime in the future, I will probably use step pulleys on it, I have some laying around [and no VFD's]. I have a 4 step set from older jigsaws that are larger in diameter, I may use those. I will probably shoot for about 6000 FPM at the top end.

The KMG clones look like a good layout, with square tube or solid stock sliding for ajustments. Look in the photo galleries to see what the other guys have built.

If You go with a VFD, You may need a larger HP motor, as You only get rated torque as You slow down, not increased torque like You get with a reduction. A guy at Quad State does grinder building workshops, much like the tire hammer workshops. I believe He was using 1 1/2HP motors with a VFD.

Grinders

Thanks, Dave Boyer. That is the kind of stuff I am looking for. A lot of the stuff on the web give great detail on construction and ends with "I hope this works out." I am looking for the voice of experience!

Belt grinder speeds

I believe, without a catalog at hand that the Grizzley knife belt sander runs at 3800 FPM. The Kalamazoo belts grinders run from 3200 to 4800 depending on model. The Grizzly has an optional contact whell of 10" that can be subb'ed for the std 8".
My Vogt built grinder intended for stainless and monel ran at something in the 7200 to 7500FPM.
When I was redoing that macine I aimed for 5200, and with a J weight belt with Norzon, that is one hogging belt grinder. EXTREMELY aggresive with a 60 grit Norzon. For fast roughing nothing i have matches, and then I step to the slower grizzly and do the remainer

Grinder

John,

My home made grinder uses a 2hp motor and step pulley to give me somewhere between 2500-5800 sfpm. I almost always use it at the highest speed since I'm almost always grinding metal. There are times I wish it ran about 20% faster, too. At high speed at 36 grit belt will take 1/4" off the end of a 1" square bar in about 3 seconds. Take 1/2" off your knuckles in even less time!

I think there are some pictures in the gallery of my grinder, if not I can send them to you.

Rich, you are indeed correct about removal rates including knuckles:)
At Vogt the belt grinder was one of several hnudred. The screw machine floor had one between every two screw machines to deburr the cut off tit. Normally used either a 36 or 24 grit Norzon. The operators would bring over a basket of 70 parts and grind the tit off of them about twice an hour. They had to be aggressive to cut the monel.

Belt Grinders

John,

Our local group did a 2x72 belt grinder build a few years ago. We built them much like a KMG but with a few modifications in the design and construction.

We put the motors on a hinged platform versus bolting it down to the base plate for quick speed changes with the step pulleys. The weight of the motor (2HP) keeps the belt tight. But then most the time I keep it as fast as it will go. Sometimes when you first turn it on the motor likes to jump but this is easy enough to either fix or plan for.

We also changed the design of the tension wheel support arm. Instead of making it of thick bar stock with a slot milled and a hole drilled the width of it we used a couple pieces of 1 1/2" x 3/16" parallel to each other. They were easier to make and held the lever with the tension wheel much more securely.

Our biggest deviation from the typical KMG style was that we assembled it with a TIG and MIG versus all that drilling and tapping. There was a little concern that we would get warping but we clamped everything in place well and were careful not to let things get too hot too unevenly. We went with welding as we had a lot of people who could weld but few with mills and drilling all those holes that precisely with just a drill press and a center punch and then tapping all those holes by hand, well, risking warpage just seemed a better bet. It let us assemble them pretty quick. In hindsight since we welded them we probably could have got away with thinner stock but I really like heavy, solid machines as long as I don’t have to carry them far.

I’ll try to post some photos next time my computer, camera and internet service are aligned.

Grinder

Thanks, Martin and others. I have planned to hang the motor for tension and easy speed change, and I plan to weld the structure.I found a pair of pillow blocks and a shaft and pully in my stash today. Getting closer to the actual build.

grinder

JOHN- Over on DARRELL's site is a good picture of my homemade grinder.
It is under sandpile. Probably the simplest way possible to make one.

chuck

Belt grinder

One of the guys in Our group has a surface grinder converted to belt grinder. He used a ready made idler wheel with tension & tracking features. He said they are sold in the knife making magazines. For anybody building a grinder without shop equipment, this would make it a lot easier.

Belt grinders

Well I don't have a fancy 2 x 72, but awhile ago I was at the scrap yard with my architect friend and found an 8" bench grinder in the pile. Bill's hobby is to find discarded tools and fix them up with parts he finds in the scrap pile. I often haul things for him. Anyway I see the grinder and although it is made in Taiwan it doesn't look all that bad so I grab it for him. Tuesday he calls me and asks if I would like the grinder, as he has 3 already. I stopped by last night and he has got it working and has made a 2 x 36" belt grinder on one end all out of junk. It works like a dream. He says I thought you might like this, real nice gift if you ask me. I'll try to remember to take a picture or two and post it in the gallery.

Daryl

A belt grinder is almost second to none for a shop tool. Keep gloves on when you are holding stuff close though.

Belt Grinder Problems

I only have one issue with my 2x72 belt grinder and it isn't the grinder, it's the belts. I can't get decent shelf life out of any brand of belt. Due to the heat and humidity in my shop the belts pop at the joint after having been stored for six months or so. This is a major expense factor - I have to buy in such small quantities that the shipping exceeds the cost of the belts or I lose too many to aging on the rack.

I've tried everything I can think of as a way to re-glue the joints with no success. Anyone got any methods that work?

I'm afraid my only option is going to be to buy a full-size refrigerator to keep the belts in and that's gong to be expensive plus the expense of running it at our confiscatory electric rates.

I made a belt grinder based on the Grizzly model, starting with the Harbor Freight buffer. I have a 5" drive wheel on a 3450 RPM motor, so the belt speed is right at what Dave B is using. It seems fine. It's quite usable with the 3/4 HP (at least that's what it says on the label) motor, but I do have to control my feed pressure on larger work to keep from bogging it down.

While we're on grinders, I originally made mine with just a straight piece of 1/4" X 1 as the work rest. After getting a piece sucked down between the rest and belt/platen, I made another rest from wider stock that sort of wraps around the platen. This made belt changes a big pain, so I only used it when I absolutely had to.

Finally the light bulb went off. I made another 1/4 X 1 work rest and welded one leaf of a door hinge to it, with pin side away from the belt. To the other leaf, I welded a wider piece of stock cut to fit around the belt. I now have ears that extend back past the belt to support long thin stock ground on edge, and can just flip the top part of the rest back on the hinge when I need to slip the belt off.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's done this, but I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it years ago.

Oh, And thinking outside the box,

but probably more trouble than it's worth:

You wouldn't need to refrigerate the whole belt, just the joint. If you could scrounge a college dorm (cube) refrigerator, maybe you could cut out a 2" segment across the top and part way down the sides. Then you could hang a stack of belts through the slot, and slip in something like a slab of 2" styrofoam on top of the belts to close off it off. The tricky part would be weatherstripping it well enough that the little refrigerator didn't use more electricity than a full-size one.

Rich, tried any or the "wet" belts? They make belts for use lubricated and cooled with water. I suspect those would resist the conditions. I use a Norzon belt with a backing rated for water resistant. Not a wet belt but water resistant. Our humidity is not as unrelenting as yours, (We do see 98F and 98% in the summer)but stored 8 years in my shop I never have had a single joint pop. If interested I can forward the Norton part number. I use them in an 80 and 120 grit at speeds from 3200 to 5200FPM, and these are reccomended for heavy pressure and feed rates as the grit fractures and makes new faces.
I can also forward my contact info for the local Norton factory rep, who helps me greatly with info and suggestions.

belts

RICH-- You did not mention the brand or grade of belt. Just guessing it would have to hotter than a human could stand to make the glue give it up IF the glue and the belt were kept dry.

It might be the surface of the belt can not stand the wet heat.

Try a dry box. Light(small--real small)bulb in an old fridge or some kind of tight box. If not careful you will cook anything you put in the box.

Heat is not likely to make them turn loose by themselves--figure out how to keep them dry.

chuck

Jeff & Chuck

Jeff,

I'd be pleased and gratified to get that info from you!

Chuck,

I'm pretty sure it is the humidit