Wayne P : 360 A B/P welder

I have 2 of these critters, the blue one I got to steal parts off of, the orange [Airco] one is the one I use. I have used this verry little for stick welding as it has power factor caps, and draws about 40 amps WHEN NOT WELDING. This only happens when the contactor is closed, so it isn't really a problem when TIG welding. Is the reostat on the start amperage controll working? from the schematic, if I remember corectly, there is a contactor that runs the amplifier circut through the start amperage reostat instead of the main one on the upper controll panel untill an arc is established. I must confess that I havn't used this machine all that much in the 3 years I have owned it, part of the reason is that much of what I do is cheap, fast & dirty, Mig fits the need better. Also I am still getting the "bugs" worked out of it as it wasn't in tip top shape when I got it in spite of being really clean & not beat up. Any further info about the weak HF performance is appreciated. Allso if You have a schematic for the pulser that went with these machines I would be interested in a copy of it, Miller cannot suply a readable version.

misc.

Jeff H: The price is high if you include shiping. There AWS number is almost the same(A5.8) the one I have is AWS 5-8-69T, material width and thickness the same. Can't say for sure about being the same thing.

Self fluxing on copper. (clean copper) Standard silver soldering procedure applies for new joints in relation to heat and flow.---------There is harder silver solders made. I picked up some years back, that required higher heat and flux. This SIL-Flo is much easier for what I use it for.

Kohler Engines: This year my grandson needed to use the roto-tiller that I haven't used for years. Cleaned the carb and messed with it,got it runing and used it. I'd take a Kohler over a Brigs any day. On small engines it seams that Brigs has the market share. The new small engines now days don't even have carb adjustments. Bought a new lawnmower at Wally World (5.5 HP) The governor wouldn't kick in on high grass, Took the darn thing back 3 months later and got my money back.------I'm looking for billy goats now.

Welding truck frames:

Light truck frames are lo carbon steel,.01%max, and have some welded joints as manufactured. The Dana corp plant I worked at in the 80's used CO2 shielded Mig to build them, military HUMMER frames were welded with argon/CO2 mix for less spatter. Heavy truck frames were heat treated after forming, NO WELDING was to be done on them at any time.

Compressor capacity :

I an not so sure it is Quite as simple as using the "universal gas law". Is that compressor really delivering 18.5 cfm of 175# air? or is it delivering air that would expand to 18.5 cubic feet every minute at 0 PSIG ? This will make a BIG difference in air delivey. 18.5 cu/ft =139 gallons. How big is the tank, and how long does it take to pump it up to 175# from empty?

This 'n that

I've been officially on vacation for five days now. My first real vacation in about five years. How is it, you might ask? Wonderful! Makes me want to retire so I can do this all the time. Only problem is, I also like to eat fresh food and live in a house. My pension will about cover my health insurance and Little Friskies enjoyed under a bridge. :-(

I've spent most of my time fussin' and putterin' in the shop, fixing up neglected stuff, doing some forging and a bit of welding. Oh...and spending money like a drunken sailor. A couple trips to the steel supplier set me back a half yard, I bought a new digital camera to take to Quad States and a few new tools followed me home here and there. To preserve harmony on the distaff side, I bought a massage table so my wife can give me longer massages without getting so tired-out that she has no energy left to cook and clean. Downright thoughtful of me, wasn't that? (grin)

I've been forging a few things (besides checks), too. Sally wanted a salt spoon to match the rest of our stainless tableware, so I forged her one out of some 304 scrap I had on hand. Came out pretty nice, for such a dinky little thing. I almost felt like I was back making jewelry, except that you really have to whale the snot out of that stainless to move it much. While I was playing with the stainless, I made a couple of shoehorns for me and my brother Riley. Long-handled ones, since both of us are too busted-up to reach our feet very easily.

I've made a goodly number of tools this week as well. A few tongs, a couple of specialty punches, a hammer head, and a table that is a "work in progress." Got the legs made, they're twisted and tapered 1-1/2" square 1/4" wall tubing. Of course, I had to make the twisting wrench for stuff that big, too. That stuff is just about *all* I can manage to twist solo; it take both hands, one foot and something to brace myself against. And a day to recover. I need an apprentice for this stuff. I asked my wife to help, but she refused. After I got her that nifty massage table, too. What an ingrate!

The new powerhammer is a truly wonderful tool, but already I see little things I would like to do differently on it. I'm going to spend some time at QS seriously picking a few people's brains for information. Before I give them any rum. I need really *clear* thinking on this, and I'm too ignorant to be able to tell the difference between experience/education talking and rum talking. And if I drink any rum, I get truly stupid remarkably quickly, only I think I'm getting smarter. (grin)

Hopefully, I'll manage to make something small enough and nice enough to bring with me to toss on the CSI sales table. I will definitely bring a leaf or three for the Paw Paw memorial. I think I look forward to Quad States more than I do any other special day or event. There's probably some convoluted medical syndrome thing happening there, but I'm not gonna worry about it.

Hot and sweaty in Paradise, the Virgin Islands.

truck frames

Ya really don't wanna be weldin' on any of the big truck frames. Most are a high tensile steel. Even a scribe line will deteriorate into a crack. BTDT
Ford pick frames are/were HTseel. Great for extreme torque but a pia to straightened and repair.
Any that I've repaired in the past were fish plated with plug welds. Some survived some didn't.

Comperssor Capacity

I'm with Dave on this one. Compressors are normally rated in standard cubic feet per minute (SCFM). This means the air put out in one minute would expand to the rated number at atmospheric pressure. It would take a *big* compressor to put out 18.2 actual cubic feet each minute at 175 PSI -- I'd guess 100 HP, at least.

If the air in the tank remains at 175 PSI and the pump runs continuously, it will suck 18.2 cubic feet from the atmosphere into the pump each minute, and the exhaust from your tool will expand to 18.2 cubic feet each minute, no matter how you set the regulator. (Of course this ignores the effects of temperature and the fact that the tool probably won't use the exact amount of air the compresor is capable of producing).

If you set the limit switch to 75 PSI or draw the air in the tank down to that pressure, then the pump will be able to put more than 18.2 SCFM. How much more depends on the design of the pump -- for example single stage compressors drop off much faster at high pressures than two-stage units. Compressors are frequently rated in terms of output at two or more pressures (say 90 and 175 PSI). They don't tell you this, but these numbers assume the tank pressure has been drawn down to the stated PSI. If you can find these numbers for your compressor or a similiar one, you can probably make a good guess of the volume you'd get at 75 PSI tank pressure.

big truck frames are the easiest as almost all are doubled frames. ive streched more than 1 in my day out to make a tractor into a dumptruck. put the splices as far away as possible and dont weld straight up and down the frame. ive seen to many straight up and down frame splices break. i cut them diagonally then weld them up. if a dbl frame not to worry.

if single frame fishplate but fishplate with a diamond shaped plate. that way the plates corner welds starts and stops dont end up lining up with any of the joints. ive seen a cpl fishplates welded on (just rectangular chunks of steel set with edges parralelle with the frame)one of which someone had brought me to repair as the vertical weld on plate and had created a heat affected zone and a crack right alongside the weld in the frame. the guy wanted me to groove out the crack and just reweld it. i told him the splice design was wrong and it had to all be cut out and replaced cause just welding it was gonna crack again. (well that and he used just about every one of them words your not supposed to say on tv discribing the first guy who did the splice job.and figured if i did it his way and it cracked ide be the next guy he would be bad mouthing) not sure what ever became of it he thought price was to high for real repair and i gave him the old (truck frames are to much liability to cob job) routine and he went on his not so merry way. im sure he used whatever of the words he forgot that you cant say on tv about me but when he ran around town ranting it wasnt cause my weld broke it was because he didnt like the price of doing the job right.

ive always used stick myself for frames but the big spring shop a cpl towns over (which streches alot and i mean alot of big trucks) uses mig. some of mine have been over the road and some have been pit trucks. the pit trucks are severely overloaded on a regular basis and ive never had one break cept for the flange weld on outer frame. biggest key to them is get them full and grind them as flush as you can any stress riser will form a crack quickly. but i aways warned the customer that the flange weld may crack since its against the grain and to watch it and call if it does and ide reweld it (just the flange weld) but it was inevvedable and not at my cost.

ps i forgot that only applies to modifying a frame i never welded a frame cause it was rusted out. except a cpl years back on my neighbors plow truck since it was and never was gonna be roadworthy the most road use it ever saw was about 300 feet of road between his house and my driveway which he would swing in and plow out whenever he plowed his driveway. or several mornings when the wifes car was stuck. but that was a freebie job for a good friend with no warranty espressed or implied.

stuff

dw-oldtrail- Thanks again,I amgoing to go with the super-sil-flo.

Rich Waugh- Little friskies under a bridge, Man its too early in the morning to
_iss myself laughing!!

Well I bought myself a small [30" wide by 24" deep table top sand blaster and all accessories yesterdat for 140.00 bucks NEW!! Happy Happy Joy Joy !! Need more room...Need more room...Need more room. Jeff

Compressors, frame welding, and stuff and QS

Regarding Quad State, one thing I know almost for sure, is that I will not be bringing the truck. Which means no shade/rain canopy, fire pit, hot shower or firewood. Still not sure if I can make it at all. And it's bummin me out.

Stephan, you are welcome. It only took a phone call and I needed to get up to speed with this guy anyway. He's the one who usually won the Kart races if he didn't blow up due to low oil. Regarding the compressor, please tell me more. Is the rating in SCFM or CFM, what are you trying to accomplish with changing the pressure, is it new or worn, and anything else you know. If this is a typical compressor, as you drop the pressure, for a given speed, the HP requirement will also drop.

Going from 175 to 75 psi and not changing the compressor speed will only result in a SCFM increase PER STROKE due to lower leakage (higher efficiency) in the compressor pump. The amp draw would go down significantly however. A piston type compressor pump is a positive displacement device. It sweeps a given volume with each stroke. Air is compressible. How the air reacts at different pressures is what makes it interesting.

So you could/would speed up the compressor with different pulleys, and get more cfm with the same motor, as long as it was balanced well enough to handle the higher speed. In a two stage compressor, it takes .143 hp to compress 1 scfm from 0 psi to 75 psi. It takes .208 hp to compress 1 scfm to 175 psi in a two stage. .235 hp to 175 psi in a single stage compressor.

As far as welding truck frames, you also want to check the insurance policy. Dave Boyer, I have some of those Hummer frames. Do you know what the alloy is or can you find out? The AM General engineers don't like anyone welding on those frame, but it might just be maintaining the design.

Cool enough to go cut some more wood in WI. Then I gotta put all those stainless tank heads in storage (in the woods). Rutterbush, I didn't forget about you either. Want a big one? grin.

Compressors

Tony,

It's been in my head that a (maybe the) major reason for compressor pump output dropping off at higher tank pressures was air compressing into the dead space between pison and head and re-expanding on the intake stroke. The higher the tank pressure, the more scf of air will remain in the dead space when the tank and head pressures equalize.

Am I wrong? Maybe this effect is considered a form of "leakage"?

Compressor combobulations

Sorry guys, I don't have too much info about the compressor. I bought it off a welder friend a long time ago. Now I'm dusting it off, wanting to set it up for carbon arc gouging, but I'm not sure if it will be sufficient. From the compressor tag I have determined it is made by curtis-toledo (a pretty decent company, at least in my books). I pulled off the inspection plastes and the compressor seems to be in excellent condition, probably due to its pressurized oiling system. The pump is a 2 cylinder, 2-stage D-96, which all I can find about it is that the 11 hp briggs motor (which is what I figure I have), at 755rpm produces 18.2cfm (doesn't list it as scfm) at 175psi. The same pump can be run with a 13hp motor and run at 885rpm to achieve 23.2 cfm at 175psi. What I really need is a second, low pressure figure, that all other compressors seem to list, where the cfm is higher at a lower pressure, because I only need to run the CAC-A at about 75-80psi, but I need between 30-35cfm.

compressor stuff

Tony:

More than just leakage involved, I think. Mike B. hit the nail on the head, IMHO. My old Gardner-Denver 20 hp 2 cylinder single stage delivered 110 CFM @ 100 psi, but would deliver ZERO CFM @ 135 psi. Clearance volume cuts output as delivered pressure goes up. My first answer was to the question as stated, “What would be the effective CFM available from the TANK be if the regulator is set to 75psi?”. Now from the compressor, is a different question. Yes, run the compressor as fast as it is able using Tony.s constant for hp. At the same R.P.M. but at a lower pressure it would put out maybe 25% more due to the better volumetric efficiency.

Q State revisited

Tony, I'll be bringing my fire pit & canopy so we're covered in that respect. Also, I still have some firewood from Isabel to burn so with Jeff H's firewood contribution we'll be set.

To answer my own question from a previous post, a motorcycle mechanic friend of mine suggested D-2 to use as lifters. MCS has it in stock. It's a type of chromium steel you can get as drill rod with good a resistance to abrasion. Not free machining, though.

Tom C

Well, I'm surprised that any welding can be done on truck frames, even on pickups. On the use of mig, I think mig produces a much smaller heat affected zone. It's a colder weld. Likewise, the first fraction of an inch of mig bead doesn't have as good a pentration as subsequently. I have a hard time believing mig is spec'd for this reason, though. I think John njo, being DOT certified, has helped a lot. The owner of the other fab shop in my third world industrial park says that it is real smart to use bolts in addition to welds, he also said it's advised/required by DOT, but I catch him all the time telling tall tales--he is a fabricator you know. A trucker who hangs out in the adjacent mechanic shop was telling me of all kinds of shops in the rust belt that stretch tractors to accomodate big sleepers and/or longer beds on freeway rigs. One welder told me short beads that are away from the edge of the frame weren't risky because any crack in or near the HAZ wouldn't run to the edge of the frame. I wonder about that. I told the trucker there had to be an awful good reason why his rig's crossmembers were all rivetted into place by the factory.

Hey, Tony, I do recall the SS recommendation. My catalogs have it more expensive than copper and brass. I'm not aware of local suppliers.

I believe atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi = 1 bar) is the baseline on a scfm, so "0" psi is 14.7 + 0. From my looking around I find the scfm difference on a piston compressor between 90 and 120 psi to be only a couple (or less) of scfm (at the same rpm). I haven't checked to see if Tony's hp factots correspond. I'm interested in this thread of discussion because I'd like to know if I could get better utility hammer performance using bigger diameter tup cylinders at lower pressure. I know how to do that computation with the hammer, but my main interest is in the compressor aspect. Fundamentally, the question seems to be, "What is the minimum electric hp that can I get by with on a continuously running air utility hammer with, say, 100 pounds of falling weight at 240 blows per minute?" I keep thinking my own self-contained hammer experience and that of Tom Clark, Brian Russel, and Fritz Kuhn suggest about 5 hp. It takes my self contained at 150 pounds falling weight about 7.5 hp. So, IMO, running a utility air hammer at 120-150 psi off the tank cannot be optimal. I'd like to run more pistons at shorter strokes in the pump than the standard self-contained design. I have to give up the constant frequency aspect, but that is not a big deal so long as the tup rises at idle and can full-stroke when needed. It's hard for me to believe that the single piston huffa-huffa pumps in self-contained hammers are horsepower efficient. Maybe it's true, but I don't grasp it right now.

hammer / class anvil

Professor John L -GO TO THE BACK OF THE CLASS FOR NOT PAYING ATTENTION!!! Tony has always advocated useing copper to feed the hammers. Said it's smoother inside than steel & plastic lined SS braided lines and gave less resistance. Also said always use flare fittings on them and gas instead of compression fittings. And Rich W siad to have a small coil near the cyl to take the shock out of the line.(I think).
And UNLIKE YOU "I" paid attention (hehehe) and went down and bought a roll of 3/8" copper and $33 worth of flare fittings for the next two hammers, (which I never got built cause of this tennis elbow).
See ya in 5 days buddy :-)

John njo - I tried to send you some pictures of the anvil but every time I hit send it said; The address Peg has to have an '@' in it. Well it DOES have an @ in it but it won't reconize it or somthing ???

Yes, I was not entirely correct.

Grant, and Mike, the clearance volume affect is right also. Clearance volume turns amps to heat. Just as leakage does. Clearance volume should be VERY SMALL in an air compressor however. Any clearance volume in an air compressor is wasting energy at all pressures. Sticky valves probably make more of a clearance volume type of effect on the average compressor. The more force required to close the outlet valve at TDC, the more pressure drop across the valve which means more pressure in the cylinder as it is going down and the inlet valve won't open until there is pressure drop across it also. By that time, the piston is a ways down it's stroke. Sticky valve effects are "leakage" by my def. And valves will LEAK more at higher pressure in most cases. Same with piston rings.

Stephen, check the valves for leakage and sticking. You will definitely have to speed it up quite a bit to get 35 cfm. I don't think it will do 35 cfm. Remember that the horsepower numbers I gave are at the compressor shaft. Not the driver shaft. You lose another 10% or so in the belts.

SCFM is at 0 psig = 14.7 psia. 0 psia is a perfect vacuum.

John L. Stainless is great, but I was referring to copper. Since you use larger than typical flared tubing, you should be using soldered or brazed copper on the inlet. Not threaded. Threaded pipe is rough inside and the fittings have MUCH higher pressure drop compared to wrought copper sweat fittings. Use type L. Heavier wall, thus safer. Don't let it flex as it will work harden and maybe crack. Easier to built and replace to boot.

John, the reason the SCFM output difference between 90 and 120 psi is small on a typical compressor is because you can't change the speed and make it constant horsepower. As I have mentioned, run lower pressure for more efficiency and longer life. Glad to see you are working on it. Pumping air at low pressure is only using power to overcome friction.

FISH PLATING OR STRETCHING

On the work that we have done on this stretching and fish plating..

We welded only as much as it took to get it to stay straight. We drilled the new frame or plating and bolted everything up. Using the grade eight bolts, plenty of them and high torque.

You can not weld down on a frame or across the rails. Diagonal(SP) is a gamble at best.. But can be done if the welder knows his business. Without the bolts it is pretty tough to make it hold on off-road use.

All that we did was on stuff that would now be called antiques.GRIN In the 60s & 70s.BOG.

Tanner"s team won both of their football games today. He had a good day, they sprung him loose for four touchdowns. He had a good time. Fourth graders and playing four 12 min. quarters.

Sandpile

antique mall vise

Leg Vise: The little woman and me visited the local antique mall, up the road today. One booth had a post vise, looking at the tag it said "Vintage Vise". Lots of times, things arent as advertised corectly. So Looking at it I saw Sheffield stamped on the side. Looking farther, at the bottom conection, where a bolt and nut is usually used for conection, there was a round pin and a flat drift secureing the end. Everything was intact except in the front thrust washers, one had been replaced make shift. A 4 inch jaw at $37.95 price tag. Not bad.------------I've already got more vises than I can get rid off,( took 3 to SOFA last year and brought them back. So I passed this one.

Pick up frame welding: I remember back in the 70's Chevy trucks had rear bumpers falling off. My nephew and a couple budies had a body shop. They recomended to there friends, to spot weld the bumper to the frame.

What I did on Saturday vacation

John Fee, you were posting while I was composing. Or I wouldn't have double hit John L. on the copper. Grin John L.!

I spent the whole day in the woods. Man, if someone needs some ash for a hammer helve, I got it. I dropped 7 ash today. None of them had any branches for at least 20 feet. All of them were over 50 feet tall and straight. From 8 to 16" diameter at the base. I was dropping well with no hangups or other tree damage for the first 4, but the last three were the tallest in the stand and all three hung up. Widow makers. The stand was tight. Used the tractor and a lot of chain to pull them down. All were dead on top. The dry year took out the tall ones. Maybe they would have come back next year, maybe not. This way I get it before it gets rotten. The tops go to firewood, but I can't cut up a solid straight hunk of good wood. Gonna have to put the motor back on the sawmill this winter.

Or waste some effort and make a large wood frame trebuchet. Have my heart set on a steel large treb, but that wood is there and the steel is not.

Cut one other tree in the swamp with an open root base. A leaner. The notch pinched, so I just cut from the back side. When she went over, A whole bunch O ground hornets filled the air. I got out of the way fast enough. Those buggers hurt from past experience.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Rich! Are you suggesting there will be no rum while thinking about hammers?

The rum must come before the thinking!

I was cramping up from the wood work today. So in must go some lectrolytes. Tomato juice has electrolytes right? and Tomato juice must have some worchestershire sauce and some celery salt and some ice and some fermented potato squeezings and some Clausen kosher dill pickle. No cramps now. Grin.

dot cert

well was dot certified while i was welding but the dot cert in ny needs to have 6 signatures by a state engineer every 6 months or it expires. basicaly they wanted a signature every month saying you were supervised by the engineer every month but to many lost there cards so they changed it to 6 signatures in 6 months so you could go a few months without and not lose your card as long as you did 6 days within six months even if it was 6 days in a row. and it expired after 2 years even if you had the signatures you had to retest every 2 years. i quit welding before it ran out the second time but after just under 4 years of showing up and working half the time the engineer wasnt there to sign ect i figured i wasnt going to persue it another time around.

ASH

TONY--Put my name on some of the ASH..Maybe JIM KEITH also.

We will figure out some thing to trade for the wood.BOG.

V-8 and other stuff added is good fo the wood lot cramps. Or horse shoing cramps-- or just prevenitive maintenance OR maybe just because it is nice to be alive.GRIN.

Sandpile

Tony - AM General Hummer Frame

I don't know the actual alloy, I may be able to find out, as I am still in contact with the lab manager from the plant. Those frames were an inner & outer section continuously welded into a box, seams on top & bottom. The material may well have been "high strength" but is definatly weldable. The reason for not welding on the completed frame is that it is a highly engineered, weight consious part.ANY stress risers that have not been tested and proven in the lab are a potential crack, just waiting to happen.

Pickup & Heavy truck frames

Pickup truck frames are not heat treated after forming, the Ford frames We built at Dana /Parrish had a welded area at the front where the steering gear atached. This was an inner member foreward of the crosmember. The crosmembers and springhangers were all riveted in these frames. GM pickup frames were inner & outer welded box from about the middle of the cab foreward, welded to the outer rear frame member in a large fishmouth shaped joint.The front crosmember was an upper and lower welded assembly, welded to the frame box sections, rear crosmembers and spring hangers were riveted. The above were all full size trucks in production in the '80's&'90's.The welding was done with CO2 mig at pretty high voltage and amperage levels[read HOT]. The heavy truck frames were heat treated after forming, but could still be drilled with cobalt high speed bits. Some were double frames, usually 3/8" thick on the outer part with a 1/4"thick member nested inside.There were a few with steel foreward sections bolted to aluminum rails. As somebody else mentioned the heat affected zone in a heat treated part is always going to be an unpredictable area, it is a pretty good guess that it won't have the tensil strengt, elongagation and fatigue resistance that the rest of the frame will.

Rum

Rum helps me think. I don't know crap about aircompressors or all that stuff Tony was talking about. I do know good rum when I drink it.
I am thinking of good rum now. Such happy thoughts. (BOG)

Hey Sandpile, goon on Tanner. Tell him god job. Sounds like the kid is having a ball. He keeps this up and he will have all the girls fawning over him in a few years.

Just a few more days folks. Tony, sure hope you get to make it .
Sounds like the pressure is on. Hows Christine?
She is still on the list buddy.

Steve